 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: enock10000doo
Date: 2006-12-10 16:27
I currently reside within the US, and I plan to order a new clarinet from Herbert Wurlitzer. But, I would like to clarify several things before placing an order.
1. Where can I find a catalogue that includes all Boehm system clarinets from Wurlitzer?
2. Which Boehm clarinet from Wurlitzer is the most professional model currently?
3. Does Wurlitzer produce gold plated clarinets?
4. What are the payment options?
5. After some research, I noticed that Wurlitzer clarinets differ from the conventional ones in several aspects (ex: leather pad, different shape of the keys, etc). Therefore, would it still be possible to repair any potential damages in the US based clarinet shops?
6. Among the Reform-Boehm clarinets from Wurlitzer, what is the difference between the “No.185”Artist” and “No.185Artist with e and f improvem”?.
7. what is the function of the key attached in the bell, and which model is this clarinet?
Thank You in advance!
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2006-12-10 16:52
... and they will probably send you a leaflet...
6: the difference is the e and f improvement
7: this key is part of the e and f improvement.... didn't you see the pictures in the other wurlitzer-thread?
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-10 17:19
It seems there must be something wrong with Wurlitzer that prevents people finding the website- don't we see the same question every two months about Wurlitzer?
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Author: enock10000doo
Date: 2006-12-10 19:09
I already asked them those questions. and I got email from them.
But they answered my question very shortly.
just 2 short sentences.
Also, they have no pictures or detail descriptions on website.
This clarinet is not cheap, and i know Wurlitzer clarinet is very nice clarinet. But I want to know about this clarinet before I purchase it.
Thank You
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-12-10 19:27
enock10000doo wrote:
> I already asked them those questions. and I got email from
> them.
> But they answered my question very shortly.
> just 2 short sentences.
You had many specific questions. Ask them individually just like you did here, or invest in a telephone call.
> Also, they have no pictures or detail descriptions on website.
> This clarinet is not cheap, and i know Wurlitzer clarinet is
> very nice clarinet.
Again, they may have (I know they once did) a small booklet, but for the price you pay you get a clarinet that is essentially a one-off - they don't really have inventory. If you've never handled one (which seems to me to be true from your questions) then you need to meet with them. Herbert Wurlitzer generally appears at ClarinetFests, so that might be the cheapest place to start looking.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-12-10 22:38
If you email Herbert W. and ask him specifically
he will email you 6 or 8 pages of PDF stuff with prices and large photos of every type of clarinet
they make.
Be prepared for sticker shock...even more today with the falling dollar!
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-11 11:57
I think I'll wait for the Euro to weaken significantly against the £ and place my order for a set of Reforms when that happens (fingers crossed) - if their terms are payment up front that'll be a bonus!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2006-12-19 20:13
I've owned two sets so far and I currently play on the 185 Artist with the low e and f. They are outstanding instruments in every respect. They may be expensive up front, but they will be the last instruments you will ever need if they are properly taken care.
Robert
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-12-26 04:54
I just went to the site and was shocked to see Larry combs, Gregory Smith listed as artists for the german system clarinets.....I'm so confused O_O
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-12-26 12:58
In the Chicago Symphony they use German clarinets for some of the German repertoire.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-12-26 13:14
"5. After some research, I noticed that Wurlitzer clarinets differ from the conventional ones in several aspects (ex: leather pad, different shape of the keys, etc). Therefore, would it still be possible to repair any potential damages in the US based clarinet shops?"
Jimmy Yan, JY Woodwind in New York City, once upon a time sold and serviced Wurlitzer clarinets. I believe he no longer sells them (not sure why, but he always has a reason). He does have experience repairing and adjusting them. Given all their extra do-dads, my sense from him is that they do require perhaps more care than a "regular" (french) clarinet.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-12-26 15:47
The Reform Boehm clarinet has Boehm fingering with numerous additional holes and mechanisms to make the scale more even and improve intonation. The best source for information on key systems is Woodwind Instruments and Their History by Anthony Baines. It has a photo and a description of the Reform Boehm improvements. Everyone who's interested in the history of the instrument should have a copy. Fortunately, it's available in an inexpensive paperback edition.
The bore of a Reform Boehm clarinet is between that of a French clarinet (such as Buffet) and an Oehler clarinet, and, for me, it's closer to the German than the French instrument. I've tried both Oehler and Reform Boehm clarinets by Wurlitzer, Hammerschmidt and others, and Oehler instruments by Yamaha, and I haven't been convinced. It's not the fingering system so much as the way they blow. They have enormous resistance, requires much more air pressure and produces a single, very good, creamy sound that's difficult to vary. They're perfect for Brahms and Mahler, but all wrong for Debussy and Poulenc.
I asked Larry Combs about this, and he agreed. When you play an Oehler clarinet, the experience is "blow in here and it comes out there." What comes out is wonderful, but I prefer to be able to make many sounds, not just one.
It's certainly possible to make a "German" sound on a Buffet. Listen to Marcellus on the Cleveland Orchestra Wagner CD, http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Orchestral-Music-Richard/dp/B0000027VN/sr=8-5/qid=1167150152/ref=sr_1_5/102-4813510-1373743?ie=UTF8&s=music. And the best Oehler players (Sabine Meyer, Karl Leister, Michele Zukovsky) can make any sound they want. It's just that you begin in different places, and the instruments have a different "default" sound and response.
When I tried a Wurlitzer Reform Boehm, I was in awe of the keywork, which had a lightness and precision far in advance of my Buffet. It also responded instantaneously, binding together wide intervals and moving from note to note in a way I can only dream about on my Buffet. However, with my French style mouthpiece, I couldn't get accurate intonation or sufficient depth of tone, and I wasn't ready to make that big a change.
larryb -
I haven't asked Jimmy Yan about it, but I think that with a $10,000 price, many key options, a years-long waiting list and few U.S. players, he couldn't afford to stock Wurlitzers.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-08-30 03:30
Eric, can you elaborate about the pads used for the Wurlitzer horns? It has been said that they were engineered to actually leak a little as to strategically introduce leakage points as in enhance response and to decrease resistance. Moreover, these pads are vigorously replaced during the routine annual maintenance done by Wurlitzer. It's just a matter of curiosity for me that I hope you can develop upon.
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-30 03:46
Hi Franklin,
I've talked to Charles Stier at some length about the set up of Wurlitzers--the pads, the keywork, etc. He's been to Neustadt and met with the family, discussed these things with them, and before this he was a student of Hans Moennig. Over the course of our discussions on these topics, there has been no mention of any "strategically introduce leakage points." [UPDATE: Wurlitzer in Neustadt declares that this theory of imperceptible leakage is false. To quote them: "This is a myth."]
As for the pad replacement you mention, and the annual maintanance, so far as I know this is not mandatory, but voluntary on the part of certain orchestras whose sections play Wurlitzers. It IS true that the bore is lacquered when first made, and that when the instrument is broken in, after a couple of years, it must be sent back to Neustadt for a final polishing of the bore, after which the instrument is fully grown up, as it were. But this is a seperate issue from repadding.
The pads themselves are synthetic, seal very well, and are nice, comfortable, and silent.
[Note: this post was edited after obtaining new information and will be updated in the event that more comes in.]
Thanks,
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2010-08-31 19:36)
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Author: Tom Henson
Date: 2010-08-30 19:08
Perhaps I can answer a couple of these questions.
Jimmy Yan passed away from cancer several years back. Not sure exactly when, but others may know a more exact date. He was one of the very few repair techs in the US that was authorized by Wurlitzer to work on their clarinets, but it is strongly suggested to have all work on them performed at the factory. Shipping your instruments to Germany safely is not that big a deal any more with FedEx, which is what I use. It only takes 2 days to get them there, about 2-3 weeks for a full overhaul, and then about 10 days back to you. Yes, it is expensive and takes longer given the time frame, but their work is excellent and an overhaul should last you 2-3 years if you take care of your clarinet. I am personally going on 3 years since my last overhaul.
Regarding the "engineered to leak" comment, I think that has been taken out of context somewhat as I was the source of that comment. The clarinets are not engineered to leak, but the pad setup that Wurlitzer uses along with the material is a very light setup. They don't use leather pads and have not for at least 5 years or more. They use a material that is very similar to gore tex because it is soft, doesn't make noise, and is water proof.
I have had discussions on this list that some German makers and repair techs understand enough about the bore design and resistance that they can very skillfully balance bore resistance using a light pad setup. What I mean is that they do not setup the pads to be bottle tight or 100% air tight. This allows for a very, very subtle amount of air to traverse the pads and thus allow them to balance better the resistance of the clarinet to the individual person playing on it. This leakage is so small that it can only be measured on a vacuum machine. This also allows them to dial in the amount of resonance, looking for the sweet spot where the most resonance can be obtained. I have also said that in my experiments that this does not seem to work on French bore clarinets. Perhaps this is due to the double venting of the Reform-Boehm system.
Regarding comments that some, including the reference to Larry Combs and the sound character of the German bore clarinets or the lack of flexibility of sound, this is partly due to what is known as nodal locking. I have written an article that better explains what nodal locking is and how this explains some of the differences between a French and German bore clarinet and would be happy to post it here if enough people are interested. It is probably too long for this thread, so perhaps it would be best to create a new thread just for that. Simply put, nodal locking is the ability of a note to lock onto and hold a given pitch. The preciseness of nodal locking depends in part on the bore design as well as tone hole placement and design, and lastly, if the instrument is single vented (French Bore) or double vented (German Bore including Reform-Boehm).
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-30 19:33
I have just been informed by Wurlitzer in Neustadt that the set-up process is not designed to allow any leakage or traversing of air in the manner described in this post. To quote the email from Wurlitzer: "This is a myth."
Having played Wurlitzers myself, I can also attest that this theory is incorrect.
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
Post Edited (2010-08-31 19:34)
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Author: MarlboroughMan
Date: 2010-08-31 19:27
Franklin,
Sorry for the delay in full response. I've been in contact with Wurlitzer in Neustadt to pose the question, and it turns out my original response to your post was correct.
The definitive answer to your question is: No, Wurlitzer does not engineer leakage of any kind into their padding set-up. This is a myth, plain and simple.
******************************
The Jazz Clarinet
http://thejazzclarinet.blogspot.com/
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