 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-12-09 02:41
here's an interesting question that I never really thought of until now when I was swapping between my clarinets.
Is there an articulated or full boehm clarinet maker that has an offset G tone hole & ring
Basically, if you look at a normal modern clarinet the 2nd finger hole (G) is offset.
On an articulated or full Boehm with a ring on the G the tonehole isn't offset (at least in my examples). Is there a manufacturer model that has an offset G & ring ?
Thanks
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-12-09 03:53
I've just switched out of a Buffet with an articulated G#. The third ring on the top of the upper joint is in line with the others. The G tone hole is in line with the A, B.
BUT, it is higher than the un-ringed G-hole in a 6/17 clariinet. I have had no problems covering the offset tone hole on my new Buffet. My left ring finger drops further to the body of the clarinet, but falls naturally over the offset tone hole.
Perhaps the raised chimney calls for the hole to be moved back in line with the others.
On my articulated G# instrument, the G# tone hole comes up through the tenon to the top of the clarinet --it does not fill with "condensation" --as my new one does.
Bob Phillips
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-12-09 04:07
I have actually never been a fan of the off-set C/G hole. Is there any maker that has a reg. 17/6 Boehm that has that hole IN LINE with the others and raised?
-S
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-09 08:40
I think the Selmer Signature has a raised LH 3 tonehole, but it's still offset.
My Centered Tone 19/7 and S-series Series 9 A full Boehm have all inline toneholes, but my A-series Series 9 Bb has an offset LH finger 3 tonehole, so it is possible for this provided the chimney is cut deeper than the others - the top of the chimney is almost flush with the surface of the clarinet and has to be recessed for the ring arm so it doesn't clatter against the body - I had to do this as the ring wasn't low enough in relation to the chimney, but that was how it left the factory in the late '70s - which wasn't an era best known for quality workmanship.
Having fitted a forked Eb to my plastic Yamaha which has an offset LH 3 tonehole, it is possible but you will need a longer key arm for the ring, and the LH 3 tonehole needs to have a chimney fitted.
What surprised me was the increase in tonehole size once I fitted the chimney - it was 8.5mm originally, and with the chimney it's now around 9.5mm to bring the D (and upper register A) up to pitch.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-12-09 10:28)
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Author: MyTurn2
Date: 2006-12-09 15:23
I have the first Yamaha made with the aritculated G#. It has an offset tone hole. It also has the chimney arrangement. Since it is model 001001, I don't know if the production instruments are the same, but I would expect them to have the same arrangement.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-09 15:49
Is this a recent instrument or an older one, and which model is it?
And any chances of posting some photos?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-12-09 21:33
FWIW - Harking back to stevesklar's original ?, it appears to me that Leblanc realized, and accommodated to, the diff. lengths of the 3rd and 4th fingers, EARLY as my Dynamic 2 [18/7] exhibits. My L 7 [17/6] has the offset also. My 1932 Selmer FB and a 1929 A are not offset, but my GREAT 1954 CT [17/6] is offset. Hope this may help. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-09 22:42
I haven't got my LL full Boehm to hand to see if this has an offset LH 3 chimney.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-10 10:05
Just to clear things up - if a clarinet has an articulated G#, it won't necessarily have the forked Bb mechanism (still with 6 rings) which means the plain fingerhole will be offset as normal. Virtually all Boehm system clarinets with a plain tonehole for LH finger 3 will generally have this tonehole offset.
But clarinets with the forked Bb mechanism (7 rings - though they may or may not have an articulated G#) can have an inline or offset tonehole chimney for LH finger 3 (which is the D/A tonehole, not the C/G tonehole as C/G issue through the top tonehole on the bottom joint covered by the ring key pad). It depends on the maker - as we've seen they can be inline or offset, even with the same maker (eg. an early Selmer Series 9 full Boehm has inline toneholes and a late Series 9 full Boehm has offset toneholes).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-12-10 22:13
Without measuring [will do] the diameters of the lowest UJ open-tonehole, calling it the C/G [lo/hi when closed !] , it seems larger [in general] than the L H 2nd finger tone hole [above]. On several of my cls, while the "toneholes vertical CENTER line" shows the offset, its edge near [the pivoting rod] is much "in-line". It seems to me that that solves the pivoting difference of the larger ring/chimney/hole in the case of a Fork [7th ring] structure. Just a Sun PM observation, prob. "Much Ado About not very much" . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-12-11 13:46
Both of my Kohlerts are offset. One is a Winnenden 20/7 and the other a Graslitz 17/7 with a wraparound register key (only forked Bb/Eb, no articulated G#)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-12 14:09
Both of my "full Boehm" Series 9s are in line, my Series 9 A with the fork mechanism is in line, and my Series 10S is inline. My new metal Selmer with the fork and articulated mechanisms is (I assume) as it appears in the photos of same (I'm stuck in New Orleans for a month, and will not get to see it until after New Years Day).
And, I'm of the opinion that having the offset and lower tone hole on a "regular" clarinet can cause irregularities in the fingering of scales. You can't notice it if you warn the player that it's what you're listening for, but if you catch someone unawares while playing slow runs, you can pick up an irregularity in the timing of the changes between B and C and D (or the equivalents in the clarinet register).
Not a big problem, but it's one that is there on the "normal" clarinet. Perhaps we need a little adjustment wheel (like on a synthesizer keyboard) to adjust the "velocity" of these particular fingerings...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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