 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-04 04:13
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Dave Spiegelthal sent me some photos of the homemade low-C extension that
he completed for his metal Kohlert bass clarinet.
In Dave's words:
"... The basic body of the extension is made from 1"-ID copper plumbing pipe and 90-degree elbows, which I had to special-order from a plumbing
supply company as it's a non-standard size for household plumbing. The keywork is completely fabricated (kluged) from bits lifted from scrapped saxes and alto/bass clarinets. The triple thumb-key cluster is a highly-modified l.h. pinky cluster from and old tenor sax. The bell is from an alto
clarinet, because it fits perfectly, is more compact than a bass
clarinet bell, and I could hear no acoustic advantage when I tried using the
'proper' bell.
Results: The ugliest thing ever to grace a concert stage; the three additional low notes are somewhat stuffy but perfectly in tune, and the keywork is ergonomically rather unpleasant but works. Best of all, I didn't have to spend many thousands of dollars for a low-C Selmer or Buffet, and that makes me very happy...."
...GBK
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-04 14:18
Dave: Can you fabricate those evil things for other makes? Are you taking orders, yet? Eu
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-04 14:24
I've yet to see pictures of the home-made contrabassoon I've read several things about.
Now, did you use lead free solder to comply with domestic plumbing regulations?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-12-04 21:09
CONGRATS, Dave, What a fine job of concept and realization, certainly a diff., well-engineered approach to a low C horn ! Do I read/see it right, that the "touch-manipulation" of the D, C# and C are all for the Right thumb, in much the same fashion as the left hand L F "plateau" sax keying for C#, B and Bb, successive pad closings ?? This looks to me as being quite patentable, and I am pleased that you have taken "invention-protection" steps before this disclosure, and have contacted a patent attorney. I will be happy to help as best I can. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-04 22:02
I am at a lose for words to describe this new DS innovation. Having seen some other of Dave's earlier engineering feats, I am still not quite recovered enough to vocalize my impressions of his most recent, ah, ah..
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-05 03:35
Thanks, all! I just tried flushing (er, I mean playing) the thing, and it works fine. No backwash, no drips, and the air spins around in a nice vortex just the way water in a toilet does..............
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-05 11:47
DS,
On the vortex generation, does Coriolis-effect come into play? Would you hypothesize that there would be a difference in the Southern hemisphere?
HRL
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-12-05 13:14
"Jumping in where Anglos fear----", Hank, might this counter-clockwise feature make a diff. to our So-Amer and Aussie friends ? Isn't their rotation clockwise? Which direction does your fan run, Dave? [GBK, 'nuff said?] Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-05 13:33
To answer your incisive question, Dr. Hank, yes, of COURSE I took into account Coriolis effect when 'designing' the extension! In fact, the current prototype is a "Northern Hemisphere Only" model -- because of the opposite vortex flow in the Southern hemisphere (as you correctly point out), my instrument will not function below the equator. A mirror-image extension would be needed there.
In a further note, another BB poster, the eminent aerospace engineer Mr. Tony Beck, has suggested the provision of a flapper valve in the system, which I'm considering for the Mark II model (no offense, Mark Charette!). He bases his suggestion on the design of the turbocharger plumbing in his venerable Maserati Biturbo. It should also be beneficial to bass clarinets.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-12-05 13:44
Damn...I'm going to need to find a metal bass now.
Dave - have you showed this to Scott Robinson? He plays a metal Kohlert bass.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-12-05 13:59
Obviously David will be doing further work and experimentation. I've calendared an update query for the spring, on April 1.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-05 14:03
DS,
Thanks for the clarification. Since we have several lawyers luring on the BB, perhaps you may want to consider that appropriate placards for Northern Hemisphere Use Only might be necessary to avoid any liability claims.
I can see the wisdom of a Mark II designation versus Mark B since by the time you got to the next update, the Mark C. model, you might have other issues to deal with on the BB. Mark III would seem to be much safer.
Is there going to be an IPO?
HRL
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-05 14:27
Before our esteemed moderators jump in and remind us that we've strayed off-topic, permit me to point out that there really is very little topic to begin with......
I guess, if I may get semi-serious for a moment, the point of this exercise is mostly to demonstrate that while tradition in the music world is a wonderful thing, there are still some things that can be done differently in order to achieve the same final musical result; and that maybe 'different' is 'better' in some respects. I'd guess that most of us who struggle daily with bass clarinets would agree that there are many aspects of the traditional designs which could be improved -- so why haven't they been?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-05 15:27
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> I'd guess that most of us who struggle daily with bass clarinets would
> agree that there are many aspects of the traditional designs which
> could be improved -- so why haven't they been?
Because musicians are amongst the most conservative people on this planet. There's nothing wrong with that, but sometimes time just isn't right for earth-shattering inventions...
--
Ben
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-05 15:45
And, also because it takes time, money and considerable skill to do this sort of thing.
While I might be able to deal with the metalworking aspects of it, I certainly don't have the skills needed to size it properly, locate the tone holes at the right point (rather than by guesstimate and multiple tries), and the pad leveling skills to make it all seal up tight.
And, I would guess that in my diminished skills set, I'm probably still head and shoulders above the typical clarinet player who would like to see this sort of thing done. There's no bragging or shame implied there; we all have our own areas of expertise. But, there are practical limitations on this sort of stuff, and only so many Davids to go around to make up the differnence.
Proposing that something be done isn't all that hard. Actually doing the work is what separates the rest of us from those with the skills, time and spare cash to make it happen.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-12-06 00:22
Terry,
"Proposing that something be done isn't all that hard. Actually doing the work is what separates the rest of us from those with the skills, time and spare cash to make it happen" is really good. May I quote you at some time in the future (credit will be given). Just like the quote below from a lawyer pal.
HRL
"Take initiative, not directions" (Dunn, 2005).
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-12-06 13:05
Leila asked: "Do people in the audience realize what they're hearing and seeing without being told?"
Itsa saxyfone, innit?
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-12-06 14:05
I've actually played a couple each of orchestra and wind symphony concerts on The Thing within the past few months, but in a partially-completed state (only the low-D hooked up and working). It certainly has gotten its share of questions and chuckles from my fellow musicians. As regards the audience, for the most part they can't even recognize a normal black bass clarinet, much less a silver-colored monstrosity such as The Thing.
I'll never forget once when I was playing a combo gig at a military base in DC, on tenor sax but with the bass clarinet on stage sitting in its stand, and overhearing an Air Force colonel who was dancing around the floor with his date trying to impress her with his knowledge of musical instruments. He pointed around the stage telling her what each of the instruments was, and when he got to the bass clarinet, he hesitated for a moment and said, "and that's a...uh...black saxophone".
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-12-06 14:42
Next time put some plastic flowers into the bell and wait for creative explanations...
--
Ben
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-12-06 14:54
Please feel free to quote away...immortality comes in many strange forms and this would be one more to add to the list.
When doing band jobs, I generally have my five horns (flute, soprano clarinet, bass clarinet alto sax and baritone sax) on my horn rack, and (when all cleaned up and shiny for a gig) they certainly catch the eye. (Them silverplated saxophones are a bit more showy than most.)
Invariably someone will catch me during the intervals and ask what "that thing" is. The bass clarinet gets most of the attention, but occasionally there's someone who can't figure out what a baritone sax is.
And, nobody ever asks about the flute..
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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