 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2006-12-01 09:02
i used to play just blue 3 vandorenreeds on my 5RVlyre. but since i've started to play more often(went from 3 to 5 hours/day) and on top of that started to play classical music instead of folcmusic(swedish folc, where the ultimate sound is bright and "flying" instead of the corefilled classical sound) i feel that it doesn't work just to adjust a 3.5 to a 3.25 cause then i still have the same folc-tone, but on the other hand i just get hisses out of the grey v12s.
the actuall question is: what reed to use????
someone that have had the same trouble?? :P
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-12-01 09:14
Have you tried 56 Rue Lepic reeds?
Possibly a 3.5 or 3.5+. Though they're normally sold in foil sealed boxes of 10 so you can't try them unless you buy a whole box (and get stuck with them if they're not right), but I think you can get single 56 Rue Lepic reeds that are sealed in individual foil packets.
Wouldn't it be better to sell them in boxes of 10 with each one sealed up, rather than sealing a whole box with the reeds loose inside? Or just not bothering with the foil seal at all.
But I like these reeds - I use a 3.5 with my M15 which works for me
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: TheButler
Date: 2006-12-01 09:40
I use 3,5 V12s on the 5RVLyre without any problems. Shouldn't feel that different from the Vandoren Traditional 3 reeds. Have you tried just one V12 reed? Have you tried balancing the V12's?
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2006-12-01 10:58
The Vandoren website has a chart. When you click on mouthpieces->Bb-> theres a flashing sign that says choose your mouthpiece. It tells what strength of reed to use with what.
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2006-12-01 14:00
i had 2 reeds given to me which i worked on for a couple of days and they turned out great! but when i bought a whole new box the most of them in that box felt totaly different. they seemed... hard to explain...the sound was as it is when the reed is way to soft. like a enginesound?! one heard the flapping sound of the reed. BUT the reed was to hard! i could allmost not blow a real forte at all.
is this common or did i just get a box out of their "reallyreallyreally-bad" arcive????
is this how reeds turn out when its time to balance them?
i have never done any work on the reeds at all with the background philosophy that they'll come in time. (and they have, but it takes forever)
so i have none experience what so ever on this!!!
anyone know a good website that tells you how. or is this something i have to learn by hand from a teacher?
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-12-01 14:02
Blue box 3 are fine with this mouthpiece and so are V12 3.5 and many other reeds.
I don't want to sound condescending, but I suspect the sound you are looking for will be achieved by adjusting your embouchure, not changing reeds. Paul Meyer (supposedly) plays a 5RV lyre with the same type of reeds you have and he sounds classical to me.
Sometimes a drastic change of embouchure can help you discover new ways of getting closer to your ideal tone. If you play single lip, try to play with a double lip embouchure for a few minutes and listen to tone changes as you vary the pressure and shape of the embouchure. You can decide to either stick to double, or go back to single but try to mimic the same sound. If you play double lip, trying single lip may help you. Some will advise long tones, I never really cared for them, I prefer playing octaves or 12th slowly, trying to hold a consistent tone with no pop when going over the break. The key is to *experiment* with the different variables that help produce the sound: how you blow air, the position of your tongue, the shape of your embouchure, the amount of mouthpiece you take in, ...
There are general guidelines, but as I have learned from the experts on this board, there is no magic solution for everyone, you have to experiment by yourself and find what works best for you.
Since you practice 5 hours a day, you probably already know all of this and I am making a fool of myself, so I'll stop here.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-12-01 14:17
The 56 Rue Lepic are ideal for longer lay mouthpieces like the 5RV Lyre and the M15. Playing on the same strength as you always played is the best medicine though it feels like you are going up a strength. Once the reeds break in, they sing and last a very long time. I might suggest that the trouble some folks have with them initially is trying to move down a strength and then the reeds winding up not lasting because they feel too weak.
Also, I agree with Sylvain, try a different approach to the production of the sound from the ground up. A much more fastidious attention to the firmness of the embouchure (ALL around the mouthpiece) is essential. In addition, you can try playing with the clarinet closer in to the body (perhaps only 20 degrees out at most).
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: am0032
Date: 2006-12-01 14:52
I would recommend finding a teacher to diagnose in person why you are sounding the way you are. It could be any of a multitude of things. An experienced teacher can help you to get the sound you want be it through change of equipment or change of your physical mechanics. Good luck.
Adam
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-01 15:48
Hopefully I won't be adding confusion to the mix here, but remember that the Vandoren V-12 has an "extra cut" and you need to drop back a half strength to be where you were with the standard blue Vandorens. So, try a couple of V-12s that are a half strength lower and see if that doesn't fix the hissing sound.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-12-01 17:09
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> Hopefully I won't be adding confusion to the mix here,
> but remember that the Vandoren V-12 has an "extra cut"
> and you need to drop back a half strength to be where
> you were with the standard blue Vandorens. So, try a
> couple of V-12s that are a half strength lower and
> see if that doesn't fix the hissing sound
Actually, it's the other way around.
The V12 reed, with a blank thickness of 3.15 mm ( or .124" - hence the name V12) at the heel and a tip thickness of 0.10mm (.004") is graded approximately a half strength higher than the equivalent numbered traditional, blue box reed.
Thus a V12 #4 reed is graded approximately the same as a traditional #3 1/2 reed.
The V12 reed has a wider, flatter scraping curve at the beginning of the vamp. The traditional reeds have a scraping curve which is more "U shaped".
The V12 reeds also have a longer vibrational zone than the traditional reeds and therefore work best with longer facing mouthpieces.
Both reeds are double cut...GBK
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-12-01 18:16
Well, I stand corrected. However, I use the V-12s and have used them for about 7 years now and I use a half strength lower than with the standard blues. Instead of a 3 1/2, I get a 3 in the V-12. This has been my experience, in any event. I'm not a reed guru, but this works for me.
By the way, I really like the V-12s because they seem to last longer and I get more good ones out of a box than the old standard blues.
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Author: pelo_ensortijado
Date: 2006-12-02 18:23
thanks alot for the help, but i've been doing some thinking:
i do like the way i am playing right now! so why change it?
i think it sounds great when i play classical music and the only reason i wanted it to change was that someone said that the ultimate classical tone is darker and with more dept!
and if i belive that my tone is THE tone for me and exactly the way i want to sound right now, then i can never change it no matter how much i try 'cause the ear still make me come back to that sound on any equipment!!
am i right or wrong?
by the way. i have found some exellent reeds and that is Mitchell Lurié Premium 4,5. those work perfect for me and goes great with how i am playing.
the problem i had with the other reeds probably comes from that they wont play the way i want them to play when it comes to tonefocus and projection and all that and i, subconciously trying to change the sound. and that is what causes the hissing sounds!!!
though im just guessing....
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-12-02 18:40
Clarinet players tend to blame their equipment for everything. Hey - I do it to. Lots of times just relaxing and listening will help work around seemingly insurmountable problems.
I tend to use softer reeds than many people. I have been playing on 5RVLyre and Borbeck mpcs with older VD 3's (I still have a dozen or so boxes), Rico Grand Concert 3's, and Zonda 3's.
As someone who has just begun playing in a community orchestra after over a decade of playing in a couple of ethnic bands, there might be a number of causes of the "hisses". I have tried going a slightly softer reed and it was helpful, at least at the beginning.
The biggest issue for me is that in an orchestral setting, I play a lot fewer notes over time than I do in other types playing. Another thing that I have (re-)discovered, that amazes me, is that I don't really have to play so loud to be heard, or to balance, with 70 or so other musicians.
Homing in on each note, trying to make every one sing, concentrating on matching attacks and releases with the other players around me, at a lower volume level, has been an eye opener, and a lot of fun. And jeez I don't have to blow my brains out, so I can re-assign the unused effort to concentrating on other more subtle things.
The acoustics of the room you practice in are also important. If it is carpeted, try putting a 4' square of cardboard in front of your chair. You will hear more indirect sound, and may well get an entirely different perspective on your tone production. Hearing better will allow you to interact with your own tone production mechanism better. If that works, think of rolling up the carpet, or getting one of those plastic things that go under office chairs.
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