 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Annika
Date: 2006-11-23 12:43
Hi! I'm very new to bass clarinet playing, having only played the soprano clarinet until yesterday. My story is that I got some thumb problems from playing, and thus decided to let my regular clarinet spend most part of its time in the case during a limited period while my hand is healing, and now I find myself as the only bass clarinet player in our little amateur wind orchestra. When I some day get back to playing soprano, I hope to be able to double on bass occasionally, since I think that the bass is also a very nice member of the clarinet family, but I would not want to abandon my first love: the soprano Bb.
I've found a lot of useful information on this board about things to consider when switching, but now I have some more specific questions about my equipment.
I've been handed an instrument to borrow for as long as I'm playing it with this group. It is a wooden Noblet equipped with a Selmer C85 120 mouthpiece. I'd never touched a bass clarinet until I got this one yesterday, so I have no ability to judge this setup in comparison to other basses, but I still want to aid my learning process as far as possible when it comes to making the most out of this setup. I'm also a bit in a hurry to learn the bass up to a decent level, cause there's a concert coming up in a week and a half ... In other words I don't need the extra hindrance from a lousy mp/reed combo or such. (As I mentioned, the band is on an amateur level, so I'm not expected to sound great, especially not with such short notice, but right now I'd say I'm plain crappy, though I manage to make a sound and am starting to find the proper key positions :-) )
Well, I guess my question is twofold:
First I'm wondering what reed strengths/models best suit this C85 120 mouthpiece and a beginning doubler. I was looking at the Selmer homepage http://www.selmer.fr/html/english/claribas/claris/bec/bec.htm but couldn't find any information on what reeds the different mouthpieces were optimized for. I did find out, however, that the tip opening is 1.90 mm and the table length 27.00 mm for this particular model. Right now I'm playing on a 2.5 Vandoren blue box tenor sax reed (That's the only kind they had in the local shop). This is a little softer than what I use on my Grabner K13 mp on soprano, but I found the #3 I tried a bit hard, and I suppose it takes some time to build up the right emboucher muscels for the larger bass mouthpiece. (By the end of the rehearsal yesterday, my mouth was so tired even with the #2.5 that I couldn't help leaking air out of the corners of it while playing, and my sound was even worse then than in the beginning of the evening, so it might be a while until I'll be able to play anything harder for an extended period of time. Then again, I don't think I was following the recommended procedure by picking up a new instrument half an hour before rehearsal and then playing for two - three hours in the very first sitting.) Anyway, I want to develop a better sound and am wondering if anyone has input on if there are reeds better suited for my setup, or if I by chance has stumbled upon a good choice. I'm mainly interested in playing classical music. (And even though they're not carrying other reeds locally, I should be able to order them and get them in my mailbox the following day, so you can just fire away with whatever suggestions that comes to mind!) For instance, do people generally prefer bass clarinet or tenor sax reeds with this mouthpiece?
The second part of my question is about the mouthpiece itself. Is the C85 120 regarded as a good mp to learn on and will it last also when I have hopefully become more proficient? I'd say that investing in a new mouthpiece is about as far as I'm able to stretch economically right now for the bass playing. But I'm obviously not in the position yet to judge for myself what would be a good mp for me, and would appreciate some pointers. One thing I'm wondering is whether there is a point in trying to "match" the mouthpieces one is playing for different sizes clarinets, to facilitate the switches between them? Like if I have a medium close opening on the soprano, should I aim for something similar on bass?
Well, that's a lot of thoughts and questions from a newbie. I'd appreciate any input! Thanks!
Now, I'd better get back to practicing ...
Annika
Post Edited (2006-11-23 13:00)
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2006-11-23 17:32
Try using real Bass clarinet reeds rather than tenor sax reeds..they are shaped quite differently...I also reccommend a fairly free blowing moupiece on the Bass..the B30 Vandoren is a favorite among my students.
David Dow
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-11-24 03:56
I must disagree with Mr. Dow on the reeds -- I've been using bass clarinet and tenor sax reeds (of many brands) interchangeably, for decades, and on average have found no real differences -- except that in most brands tenor sax reeds are more readily available. As for mouthpieces, there are better ones than Vandorens out there for bass clarinet, e.g Clark Fobes, Walter Grabner, Roger Garrett, J&D Hite, Borbeck, etc.
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2006-11-24 05:29
I've used both types of reeds and played on a C85 120. I found it to be a more than suitable mouthpiece for my playing. I did, however, purchase a Walter Grabner creation that simply blew the C85 120 away! The C85 120 is my backup bass clarinet mouthpiece in case disaster strikes.
The Selmer piece is not a bad piece.
You state:
"But I'm obviously not in the position yet to judge for myself what would be a good mp for me, and would appreciate some pointers."
That to me says that you're not ready to start looking for your own mouthpiece without some personal attention from someone being physically there to guide you. We can give you all sorts of advice and opinions as to what we like and prefer. And trust me, ask the right questions and no one will hold back!
You need to have someone there you can talk to in person and they can listen to your sound and help you decide. Don't rush into this decision to purchase new. Take the C85 120, which costs you nothing, and use it until you feel confident that you can judge what a good mouthpiece for yourself would be.
To start learning how to do this, ask your director if he/she has a collection of different bass mouthpieces in their possession that you can try. Take 'em all home and take notes about what you like and don't like (i.e. short facings, long facings, large tip openings, small tip openings, stuffy, free blowing). Then come back and play them in front of someone who has trained ears and get their opinions as to what sounds best. Take the two and you have a starting point. From there you can start to narrow down what it is you wish to purchase.
All in all, I suggest a #3 strength reed for the Selmer mtpc from personal experience with the same model of mouthpiece. The bass will get much easier to play as you adjust to the amount of air it takes and the voicing changes you need to make to make the upper register speak clearly.
When ever I have clarinet students moving to bass from Bb clarinet, I tell them not to change the reed strength. Of course, they always complain that the first few times they play that the reed is too hard, but after a week, there's a gorgeous sound and good air support. Don't sell yourself short on the amount of air you need.
As a rule of thumb, for my 6th grade bass clarinets, they're only too loud when the I tell them they are. I rarely tell them to quiet down. Usually, it's to play louder and to play the horn like it's the greatest thing in the world.
I hear way too many people playing bass clarinet as if they have an entire section of basses backing them. Don't be afraid to crank the volume and test the sensibilities of your orchestra director! As you play lower you need to play louder to be heard at the same perceived volume level as all the upper instruments. Let your director tell you how much softer you need to be, not louder. Just a starting point.
And for the record, I prefer bass reeds to tenor reeds. I find the response and tone better at the low end. I will use tenor reeds without hesitation, in a pinch. Also a recommendation for Walter Grabner and his bass mouthpieces.
One final thought - Basses are notorious for being finicky at the slightest leak. Basses are very intolerant of leaks, especially compared to Bb clarinets.
Good luck and happy tooting.
-pat
-sorry for the bad flow of thoughts.
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