 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2006-11-22 01:53
Hi,
I own a Selmer 1430 contra alto and just purchased a Vito 7182 (straight) contra bass. Can anyone recommend the best stands for such instrument (and a source for buying them)? I'm looking for a stand for a single instrument, not both at the same time. Obviously, it would need to be sturdy, and tip proof. Is that even practical, given the height of the instrument? I don't want any disasters. I'm mainly a pianist, and want to take these instruments along on the occasional jazz gig. Laying it down on a stage would also be risky.
I saw some references to the Konig and Meyer bass clarinet stand. Is this the best (perhaps only) option?
While I've got the attention of contra alto/bass players, I've got one more question. What's the best swab for these long, one piece instruments? I've been making do with one that's barely adequate.
Thanks in advance.
Post Edited (2006-11-22 02:34)
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2006-11-22 13:01
I purchased a Blayman bassoon/bass clarinet stand on a popular auction website and it works very well for my Selmer/Bundy Contra-alto. Heavy, not very portable, but very sturdy.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-11-22 13:13
I've been using a K&M stand for my Bundy contra-alto. I bought the K&M because it seems more secure than other stands I considered. I think it's at low risk from my own klutziness. However, I think a determined Shadow Cat (who hates clarinets, although she hates low-pitched ones less) could knock that stand over if she tried--and she might. Therefore I practice in the guest bedroom and close the door when I leave the clarinet alone for a moment, rather than take the risk.
For swabbing, I use two different swabs. I detach the neck and swab that with a regular silk clarinet swab. For the body, I use a silk bass clarinet pull-through swab with a slight modification: I added a length of ball chain between the end of the cord and the weight (took the plastic-covered weight off the cord and attached it to the end of the chain) to make the swab long enough and heavy enough to drop all the way through. The Bundy is plastic. I think if I had a wooden contra, I'd replace the original cord with a longer one, from the upholstery department of the fabric store, because I'd be concerned about the ball chain marring the inside of the instrument. The smooth balls shouldn't hurt the plastic Bundy, however.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-11-22 13:30
Can't speak for the contrabass, but for my contra-alto I use a Blayman at home and a K&M for gigs -- both are marketed as bass clarinet/bassoon stands.
You might check with Larry Bocaner, retired Washington National Symphony Orchestra bass clarinetist and an occasional poster to the BB here -- he make a bass clarinet stand of his own design which might work for contras (I can't recall what his stand looks like so I'm not 100% sure about it); or he might be able to custom-make one for you.
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Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2006-11-22 13:33
Hello, Lee,
I bought a used Selmer 1440 contra-alto last spring, and found a stand that works well. I wrote about it then - click on Taking a Stand. Note that the Bocaner stand works on its own, without my two-horn modifications, for the contra-alto. It is probably not long enough for the contrabass. But you could try the add-on approach for that horn; then it would work for both your contras. Larry is a contributer to this site; look him up via the Search function and contact him via e-mail.
I also found a Hodge silk bass clarinet swab that works well for my contra-alto. Here's how I do it: Take off the bell; leave the neck attached. Turn the body up-side down. Feed the swab's weight into the neck. Slowly turn the body right-side up, while holding the very end of the swab. Shake the swab weight with the string, and let gravity help you feed it through the long tube. The weight won't show up at the other end until the swab itself is part way through the neck.
This requires care, dexterity, and a little strength. But it does the job. Perhaps the Hodge bari sax swab would be long enough for the contrabass.
Have fun exploring the depths!
Bruce
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2006-11-22 14:50
Thanks for all the tips so far. I'll follow up on them.
For those of you using the K&M stand, it seems there are two different models for bass clarinet, with the 15040 being the larger of the two. I was looking at the WWBW site, and they only had one listed. Unfortunately, they have their own product number system. For those of you familiar with these stands, does the one pictured look like the larger version?
Regarding the swabs, I guess adding an extension is the way to go. By "ball chain," are we talking about the kind of chain used for chain pulls on basement light fixtures? Or, is this something larger? I think I might have some Mardi Gras bead necklaces around here. Maybe those would work, although I don't think I'd want to pull very hard on them.
I've checked around, and I haven't found any swabs specifically designed for these long, one-piece low clarinets. The Selmer 2947 is supposed to be good for contra bass clarinets, but from the picture, I think they're talking about wood instruments that break in the middle.
If the Doctor is listening, maybe this is a new opportunity for him (since he's already in the swab biz).
Lee
Post Edited (2006-11-22 14:57)
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-11-22 14:53
I use a K&M stand with the top holder bent open slightly for my Vito plastic contra-alto.
The Hodge bari swab will not work on a contra - it's designed just to go around the curl in the bari.
I find I generally don't need to swab the whole contra. I just dump the accumulation in the neck regularly.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-11-22 15:22
Here's a description of a contrabassoon stand made from an artist's easel http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/DR/DR1.2/stand.html
Here are some sturdy looking stands, unfortunately from a Czech site http://www.paschart.ch/dateien/photos.htm, though the owner lists an email address, so you might ask him about them.
See also http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=contrabass+stand
I suggest querying the Contrabass board. You might also contact Jay Eaton, who specializes in low saxophones, about what he uses. He's a regular there.
The problem is that straight contrabass clarinets are inherently unstable, and even a single tip-over can make them unplayable. The safest thing to do is borrow the "miscellaneous" table, with a carpeted top, from the percussion section and lay the instrument on that, at least at the breaks.
Go to a carpet store and get a remnant piece of hall runner, which they always have for next to nothing. They usually also have 6-foot sample pieces bound on all sides, which are nearly as cheap. Put it on the floor and lay the instrument on it, placing chairs strategically to avoid careless feet.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-11-22 15:45
Hi LeeB, the K&M bass clarinet/bassoon stand definitely works well with any straight body wood or plastic model contra altos. Since it was designed to work well with a low C bass, and a contra alto isn't that much longer in the body. You will have no problem with it.
You are right, the last time I checked there were two types of this stand, the difference being in the size of the bottom holding cup. Find and get the one with the bigger cup (circular, size of a soup bowl), this type offers a much bigger room to hold the bell of your contra alto. I believe this was the original version but by now it may be hard to find. The newer version has a much smaller, square-shape rubber holder that fits perfectly the boot/butt of the bassoon, as well as the peg tip of bass clarinets, but this small holder won't work too well when you want to rest the bell of your contras directly on it. So do your best to find the type with the round holder the shape and size of a soup bowl.
I also use the K&M stand with my Vito straight body "contrabass". Fully extended it offers just barely the leverage needed to hoist the beast. I however don't trust it 100% without supervision, because it will (although it hasn't yet happened to me) tip over if you hit the top part of the contra with the same amount of force as if you are padding your friend on the shoulder. So it's best to guard it at all time especially with casual people around being inattentive of its presence.
I never bothered swapping the body of neither contra. I swap the removable necks and clean the mouthpiece, give the instrument keys and body a wipe and that's about it. Most of the condensation happen in the removable neck and the metal leadpipe leading up to the body anyway, so if you are concerned you could get an alto saxophone pad saver and swap the metal leadpipe, but the one piece body? I wouldn't bother, it's synthetic material, and most of the keys on the top joint are open and the pads will air dry and hardly any condensation happens in the bottom joint.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-11-23 05:00
For what it's worth, the K & M stand doesn't really fill me with confidence with a standard low C bass on it, much less a contra horn.
With something as top heavy as a harmony clarinet, you want to make sure that the weight of the horn can't "lever" the base of the stand over. What I did was to take a Anderson folding stand ring and upright section, then install that (by bolting) to a H-bar base made of oak 2" by 4" members routed out and screwed together. A bit heavier, but it would take a truck pulling on either the bass/bassoon or the baritone to upset it.
(The Anderson stands are no longer in production as far as I've been able to tell. However, you occasionally see them for sale on various auction services. The same company made similar stands for alto and tenor saxophones (but not baritone).)
For the large instruments (baritone, bassoon), I've had strap steel welded into a cradle like stand, then spray painted it and padded the rings with foam padding and hockey tape. (Total cost was about thirty bucks at a local welding shop.) Very easy on the horn, very stable (and lower to the ground).
I also managed to find a fag stand that came apart in two pieces; I just bolt the stand portion to the H-bar and all is well. Clarinets and flutes and soprano saxes fit on standard pegs, with numerous sockets set into the inter-big-horn spaces on the H bar.
Having witnessed the death of a Mark VI tenor whilst working in an off-stage pit orchestra one fine evening, I've very paranoid about falling horns. Better safe (and a little inconvenient) than sorry. All of the "available" stands on the market are made as much to be "light" as they are for "safety and stability". If you are already going to be hauling the extra weight of a harmony clarinet around, you should be using a cart in any event. Just put the extra weight of the stand on the cart, and that's it.
For those who are interested, I've got photos that make the process pretty self explanatory. Email me at info@sotsdo.com if you'd like a copy.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2006-12-05 14:53
As a post script to this thread (for anyone coming upon it at a later date), I decided too try the larger K&M stand, and it arrived yesterday. I'm quite pleased with it. It fits the Leblanc 7182 contra bass quite well, and fits my contra alto and bass even better. I do understand the concerns about tipping over, and I know that if I use it, I'll have to be careful where I place it. For the situations I envision, though, I think it's going to do the trick. One nice additional feature for me is that when it's broken down, there's space to stash it in the 7182 case.
Thanks again for all the replies.
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-12-06 20:41
Lee ... wow, owning two behemoths! I assume you don't have a wife, a husband, or a mortagage?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-12-07 05:41
Attachment: 09SelmerContrabass&Basses.jpg (267k)
I have the K&M stand for my low C bass and it works very good. In a convention where they had the huge Selmer contrabass clarinet they even put that on a K&M bass clarinet stand. Actually, here is a picture of it (to be honest, I was most impressed with the stand than that clarinet!).
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Author: LeeB
Date: 2006-12-08 05:30
<<<Lee ... wow, owning two behemoths! I assume you don't have a wife, a husband, or a mortagage?>>>
I've got a wife, but no mortgage. In actuality, I waited for the right deals to come along on these instruments. I got one off the well known auction site at a ridiculous price, and the other I just stumbled upon while Googling that model number. A band director had a very new contra that they brought in to trade for a bass trombone, and I just happened to call at the right time. The price was too good to pass up. I use these instruments in recordings, so they'll definitely earn their keep and pay for themselves.
If I ever win the lottery (which will be difficult to do, since I don't buy any lottery tickets), I'd like a Selmer Model 40, and while I'm at it, a new Yamaha five octave celeste. I think we'd also need to move into a new house, because the present one is starting to look like a music store.
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-12-08 13:38
Lee:
When you do get that 5 octave celeste and kick your old 4 octave out the back door, please let me know so I can be hanging around to grab it! I love the celeste enough to even forgive the celeste player for butting in on the beautiful bass clarinet music in Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy. Eu
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