 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-11-21 21:41
I play in a decent amateur wind ensemble. The players are mostly not music professionals but they are auditioned to get into the group. This is in a medium sized metropolitan area in the U.S.
Last night the conductor announced we would not play a tuning note and just use our ears. I and probably the majority of the players have a good sense of where our instruments should be at various stages of warm-up, so this did not disturb me. I usually don't need to adjust to a tuning note much unless it is higher or lower than what I am accustomed to.
However, as the night went on and no tuning note re-listens were done, the pitch got pretty high.
Has anyone else worked in a situation like this, and what were the results?
johng
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-11-21 21:46
My instrument was tuned at the factory ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom A
Date: 2006-11-21 22:20
Don't you know anything, GBK? The correct procedure is to tune them once, then solder the tuning slides in that position. ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
I've searched for the thread in which someone says this was done in a high school band, but can't find it. Nature's way of keeping me sane?
John, did the band still manage good intonation, though sharp? I suppose that clarinets pulling barrels out to the cork would cause, um, interesting differences in pitch on lower notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-11-21 22:57
Hi John,
I'm old enough to remember when a Strobo-Conn was a new and wonderful device. We used the oboe, our ears, and an occassional tuning fork before that period. Somehow we survived.
I'm a pretty good player and have good ears and am always able to adjust to the relative pitch of the moment. If your group is of the same ilk, I would expect the same. However, if the pitch goes up after the practice session have begun, that is not surprisong due to natual effects of temperature on pitch (see some other posts I have done on this topic).
BTW, I'm all for a group that has an audtion process, even an informal one. I have been in several that do not have such a policy (and before long, things get frusttating since the demands of the 1st and even the 2nd clarinet part require some skills that many players do not have yet).
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-11-21 22:58
>John, did the band still manage good intonation, though sharp? I suppose that clarinets pulling barrels out to the cork would cause, um, interesting differences in pitch on lower notes.
No, not only did the pitch get high, but it also got a bit wild....different opinions, I guess.
johng
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-21 23:10
johng wrote:
> No, not only did the pitch get high, but it also got a bit
> wild....different opinions, I guess.
The politically correct term would be "musical diversity"... ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-11-21 23:39
I like a tuning note, but I think it can be overdone. I've seen bands and orchestras tune for 10 minutes, or tune 3 or 4 times per concert and I'm thinking either:
1) Great! now your A is in tune - what about all the other notes???
or:
2) How about you keep your ears open and stay in tune, even during an actual piece?
Like I said, I'm all for a tuning note to make sure the ensemble is on the same page when a rehearsal/performance starts - from there, use your ears. I conduct a community band as well as my own school bands, and it does take people a little while to get used to, if they're used to a long tuning process, but it can be done, and the end result is usally people who are trying to stay in tune. Better than tuning for 10 minutes, start rehearsal with a brief tuning note and a chorale, and maybe play a slow tone piece in the middle of the rehearsal, to force them to think about intonation once in a while!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2006-11-21 23:54
Perhaps it is a good exercise. Don't tune and listen to what happens. If the pitch is going to creep up it will do that even if you tune before the concert. Clarinet is a pretty stable instrument for pitch as are most of the brass instruments. Flutes on the other hand... For the most part I would think that people know where they tune. If there are major problems that is usually due to inexperienced players. Tuning for orchestra is real tuning....the strings obviously need it. A band on the other hand might just need a bit of tweeking and checking critical spots in the program. Ideally I guess tuning up in an productive way will produce better results than a tossed off tuning or no tuning at all. If the tuning procedure doesn't help why do it.? The more the band plays together the less tuning is necessary. If it's not getting better each time then people aren't cluing in to what their tendencies are.
Freelance woodwind performer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D
Date: 2006-11-22 06:51
I play in lots of recorder groups, and we never tune. People are expected to adjust as their instrument warms up, and then keep it in tune. It always sounds fine.
The wind band and community orchestra are another matter entirely. Doesn't matter what you do, no one ever seems to be in tune. I think they assume that because they have tuned at the beginning, that they will stay in tune so they turn their ears off.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-11-22 11:34
I am apalled.
To what are the EARS supposed to be listening?
Since there are constantly changing factors such as temperature and humidity, no one instrument will maintain any dead on accuracy - there is always constant adjustment.
You MUST start with a paradigm........I don't care who you are.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-11-22 14:49
Our local UW Professor of Jazz and Composition (sax/clarinet planyer) with New York city/Eastman roots, often says, "Warm up and tuning is for amaturs."
A violinist that has often subbed with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra told me that they "never tune. They just play in tune." We played together in the Birch Creek Pops Orchestra, Egg Harbor, Wi where she often let some very young student violinists hold and play her Stradivarius.
For me, I think a little pre-tuning is ok--but it is much better to play in tune that *be* in tune. Like my good clarinetist friend Ginny P (now living and playing in California) "Good intonation is really good cooperation."
Post Edited (2006-11-22 14:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-11-22 16:29
Yeah. What you all said.
I think, though, that a tuning note is definitely necessary when dealing with a fixed-pitch instrument. My accordionist's accordions are all tuned to 444 so the violinists need to switch if they have been playing with another group. Those open strings can be problematic to "tune on the fly"!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Maarten
Date: 2006-11-23 08:47
I haven't even seen anyone getting started on the fact that one and the same note has to be tuned differently according to its role in a chord. Just last weekend we did a nice exercise: play simple chords where one note changes from being the fifth to the third in subsequent chords. If you keep it at the same pitch, one of the two will be horribly out of tune. After some initial tuning, there's nothing like your ears!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-11-24 21:43
[In two different chords] "If you keep it at the same pitch, one of the two will be horribly out of tune."
And that is why the tuning on a piano must be *tempered* so its notes may be used in all keys. Even the most carefully tuned piano is, therefore, really terribly out of tune with our ears which want to hear everything according to natures "just" tuning.
Again, "Good intonation is good cooperation." Virginia [then] Porter, 1990
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
