 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-16 19:51
It's a pretty common assumption that older (past adolencense) people can't learn in general. Sadly this seems to be the view of my new teacher, who has given me several good tips. However he does seem to view me as basically unteachable due to my age. I don't intend becoming a pro, but I do intend to continue to improve. I assume I should look elsewhere for lessons, as the attitude on his part will decrease my ability to learn. Having gotten a math degree, with honors at 50 and believe I can learn to be better. There's hard evidence that adult brains do grow and that in fact adults can be trained to learn foriegn languages etc. but that specialized techniques are helpful such an a more incremental approach in one instance.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2000-03/UoIa-Sorb-3003100.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-12/miot-mrf122205.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-03/uoc--usi031104.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-06/potn-acb061405.php
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/sumc-srt091602.php
Mostly I'm annoyed at the attitude, but will listen to opinions.
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2006-11-16 20:39
Hi, Ginny!
At the grand old age of 53, I find your teacher's attitude toward older players a bit nebulous. Did he actually say you are an unsuitable student because of your age? If I was his student, I'd have a conversation with him about my potential to learn the clarinet and specifically address his comments that **seem** to indicate poor potential. Perhaps there is just some misconceptions operating in your teacher-student relationship that need resolution. Specifically address your student goals.
When I was about 50, I took up the trumpet with an instructor in his mid-60's who played trumpet beautifully. I never mastered notes above the staff very well and ended up taking saxophone and clarinet with him until I quit lessons in August. It seems to me a motivated student knows when it's time to move on to no lessons or lessons with a teacher who loves the kind of music the student loves to play and likes teaching. When music lessons and/or practicing for lessons become a drag, I think it's time to reassess lessons and goals.
Where I to analyze my own musicianship, I'd give myself a grade of C, just knowing most of the notes--hating the reeallyy high ones--and having enough skills to entertain my relatives in a nursing home, playing familiar songs. That is quite enough for me. If there was a local community band, I would work to become a member and enjoy that immensely.
Last time I was at the nursing home, my 70 year-old aunt sat at the piano and played off my Bach music sheet. How beautiful her music! I know she hadn't played in years. She still has that talent and skill...and now is brushing up for playing in church again.
That is my spin on age and learning music. Motivation, dedication to practice, and a good teacher are all that really matters.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-11-16 21:06
Reeeaaaaaalllly bad attitude from a teacher who should know better.
You have a choice here. You could continue on with this teacher and eventually he will have to revise his views about older learners, or you could go somewhere else where you will be better accepted.
I can understand your concern about attitudes concerning older learners. As I age, I find I have to work harder to establish credibility as a quality player. I also have to work to keep my skills and work yet more to improve them. But that doesn't stop me from recently acquiring the skill of double tonguing. The way I figure it, as long as I can continue to learn new things on the clarinet, I will keep going with it. I am inspired by people I know who continue to play very well as their age advances into the 70's and 80's.
I hope you can convince this teacher about the error of his attitude!
johng
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-11-16 21:19
You need a new new teacher. Any teacher who espouses ideas like he is probably has other preconceptions about lots of things.
Bob Draznik
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-16 21:29
Ginny --
Do you have other musical background? Have you achieved any degree of competence on another instrument? If so, I would think it is just a matter of time (and well-guided effort, of course) until you come to competence on whatever instrument you try.
If you have not ever played an instrument competently, nor studied music theory before, is it possible that you have some struggles in the direction of basic aptitude (not, IMO, an age-related thing)?
As I write this, I am listening to my husband, aged 66, play his clarinet. He has been a "rebeginner" for the past three years. His prior performing experience was limited to playing 3rd clarinet in his early high school years, and once learning "Lady of Spain" on the accordion, more than 50 years earlier. He had never learned clarion register, did not tongue, could not (and I mean COULD NOT) count. His tone -- well, it matched the rest of his skill set.
Right now, he is playing "To a Wild Rose," so beautifully it brings tears to my eyes. His tone is exemplary. He is crossing the break like a pro, articulating appropriately, counting and staying on it, playing from start to finish without a bobble, without a squeak, with perfect expression.
All of which is prefatory to saying that, unless you just really have NO discernible musical ability, you will most likely do well if you put your mind to it, and give yourself TIME. Don't expect instant miracles.
Somebody on this board, a few years ago, wrote that the trick to becoming a good musician is the willingness to be bad long enough. Those are words to live by!
Susan
P.S. I started the oboe at the same time my husband started clarinet (I was a clarinetist before). Three years into it, I am playing it amazingly well -- even my teacher says so, and she had her doubts that that would ever happen, believe me. All other things being equal, age is what you think it is.
Post Edited (2006-11-16 21:36)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-16 21:31
I started playing guitar at 40. It was a wonderful mental and physical exercise. I had some of those misgivings about abilities to learn in middle age, but everyone thinks I have been playing much longer than 16 years (age 56).
I agree with comments above that your teacher's views and opinions are exactly that...just opinions. Go for it!
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Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-11-16 21:50
I will never understand why some people persist in writing off older folks as incapable of learning anything. After playing clarinet in school from age 9 to 15, here I am at 60 going bact to it again . . . and, by golly, I intend to practice and play until someday I'm every bit as good as I never was!
Eu
P.S. . . . and I don't know any reason why, as I get even older, I can't play it while in a wheel chair or one of those little electric scooters.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-11-16 22:59
I'm 66 and have a good teacher. I get sent home to re-do my weekly work on occasion, but I do improve. I'm going to be able to play beautifully before I die!
Its your life, money and time. Find another teacher.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-11-17 03:40
Kudos to you all!!!
I wish I could find more students like you!!!
Katrina (merely pushing 40)
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-11-17 04:17
You go girl! When you stop learning your are dead! Tell the jerk to get a life and you get a new teacher. What goes around comes around and he'll be there before he knows it. When he gets your age he'll feel differently.
Becky
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-17 04:45
I think I should look for another teacher. Basically he says I can't learn to play anything fast - or rather that people my age in general can't, but perhaps I could be the first (like it's a joke to him.) I know of some studies that show the teacher's expectation will in fact change the teaching outcome. He really seems to know how to improve my playing on the other hand. I assume he is, being a high powered player and teacher, looking for the students with professional ambitions.
I have a master's on classical guitar and made a living playing for a while, as a sort of low level pro - but clarinet moves faster. My tone is relatively nice and that I seem to improve with any instruction. Hand and arm tension on clarinet seems to really drag me down speed wise and he actually helped me with this a lot. I tend to back off the air when insecure.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-17 06:48
Ugh, dump that teacher, or threaten him doing so unless he changes his attitude. (which I doubt will happen)
Looking at this thread, I feel like a youngster (42). Started clarinet roughly one year ago, after doing nothing for 30 years (quit recorder at the tender age of ~10), never touched a clarinet in my entire life before. I practice roughly half an hour a day if time permits, and think I'm making progress. Playing by ear goes a lot faster than sight-reading an unknown piece, of course.
Motivation and dedication are key, as are a healthy dose of self-esteem and encouragement from others. Insecurity will inevitably hinder progress. I agree that with advancing age, fingers become pesky. Not because of creaky joints or so, but the "motoric memory" is harder to fill - it just takes constant repetition to get a passage into your fingers - the way from eye to brain to note recognition to hands is just too long, for everyone. Only when I are able to bypass the "lemme see, that's a C, okay, where are my fingers supposed to go" phase and can finger without thinking, then I can increase in speed. It's just the same as typewriting - unless you do it all the time and automatisms set in, you're hovering over every key before you finally press it. I guess this process takes longer when one's older, but our body is a fascinating thing and can - when motivated - learn everything.
--
Ben
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2006-11-17 12:28
Ginny:
If your teacher has really told you this, then you should dump him now. He has no respect for you, your ambitions and your potential . Personally I would consider him a moron if what you say is true.
If you are just reading something into general comments he has made then you need to have him confirm your beliefs. If he does, pack up & leave. If he thinks you misunderstood, then you have grounds for a long interesting discussion with him. Maybe you can teach him something as well.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-17 12:31
<I have a master's on classical guitar and made a living playing for a while, as a sort of low level pro>
Well, I guess that answers the question about musical aptitude ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) !
I sense that your own ambition for (and impatience with) yourself, and your understandable insecurity about being an older learner, have found their "objective correlative" in this particular teacher's biases. To put it more in the vernacular, the rocks in his head fit the holes in yours.
I have always found it emotionally difficult to reveal my shortcomings in front of a teacher -- to the point that, in some situations, I can't play a note. And this, when the teacher is being reassuring! If I felt that the teacher were specifically hostile to my efforts, I would want to leave and not return.
On the other hand, if someone has something I want, and they are willing and able to provide it for me, I might be able to set my mind to just getting that benefit, and look elsewhere for validation of my worth as a musician. It's a cost-benefit thing. How much emotional pummeling are you willing to put up with to get what this teacher has to give? (Stories of encounters with sadistic teachers are rife in the annals of professional musicians, BTW.)
At least, you know where he is coming from. But you don't have to take his attitudes on as your own. Nor do you have to waste energy trying to prove him wrong. You have every right to be doing what you are doing, and to feel proud and happy about it. Cut yourself some slack, enjoy it, find places to play and people with whom to play. Define yourself!
Susan
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-11-17 13:53
I sure am glad that I never met anyone like this teacher. I started learning music and clarinet 21/2 years ago, (no previous experience in any type of instrument) and I am doing pretty well at 59 years old. So far I am basically self taught - with help from my wife. I play with others and do plan on getting some lessons when I ove back to the states. They don't play jazz here in La Paz.
....Jim
www.bajaseafaris.com
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-11-17 14:03
Your teacher's attitude is defeatist and probably based on personal frustrations. I'd dump that loser. The last thing a struggling player needs is discouragement.
So an older player can't play notes as rapidly as a younger one. So what? There is plenty of less-challenging clarinet music that's beautiful and evocative which brings joy into one's life. Leave the mighty oaks of the musical forest to young wizards.
There's room for us all.
b//
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-11-17 14:09
Bruno wrote:
> So an older player can't play notes as rapidly as a younger
> one. So what? There is plenty of less-challenging clarinet
> music that's beautiful and evocative which brings joy into
> one's life.
Slow movements are just as hard if not harder to play than technically challenging ones ... which is why the 2nd movement of K622 is used so often as an audition piece.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-11-17 14:32
It was mentioned above that one needs to "pattern" one's brain to bypass a lot of the see-think-finger/lip/tongue/air/throat/lung/diaphram sequence that turns a written note into the wonderful sound you are looking for.
Lee Livengood gave me a good analogy of this process last month: "On a violiin [guitar!], everything you do to make a note can be seen. On a clarinet [wind instrument], all that process is hidden inside the player."
As a musician changing instruments, you just need someone with the ability to "see" inside you and help you shortcut the eye-sound cycle --get it "grooved-in".
I've had a lot of folks tell me that clarinet music can move awfully fast --compared to other instrumental parts, but I think that there is a heck of a lot more going on with a fast moving classical guitar piece than there is in 96% of the clarinet literature.
Persist!
Bob Phillips
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-11-17 14:51
Ginny, if you play classical guitar you can play anything! You already have dexterity in both hands from the skills you've used on the guitar. You would not have problems (with a lot of work) working up to speed on the clarinet.
I started playing clarinet when I was 11. When I was a kid I didn't worry about learning and being able to play the fast stuff, but I can tell you for certain I'm a much better player now than I was in high school!
So, let us know. And, yes, you need to ditch that fuddy-duddy teacher. Some teachers minds just get bogged up as they age.
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-11-17 15:51
ginny,
The "assumption that older (past adolencense) people can't learn in general" would come as a surprise to quite a few members of the 24 piece swing band for seniors that I play in.
Some had never played an instrument until joining a few years ago and others had not played for ~40 years and have had to re-learn with a steep learning curve.
At 61 I'm the youngest. Some are in their 80s.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2006-11-17 15:55
Ginny, I think it partly depends on whether the teacher says these things with a knowing wink, physical or metaphorical. I had a calculus teacher in high school who would josh around about girls and math, and he was very supportive of us. Does this teacher have many adult students?
Barb
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-17 17:31
"Ginny, I think it partly depends on whether the teacher says these things with a knowing wink, physical or metaphorical. I had a calculus teacher in high school who would josh around about girls and math, and he was very supportive of us. Does this teacher have many adult students?
Barb"
One thing he said was that he'd never succeeded in teaching an adult student (read that older person) to play fast. That he did not believe I would even be able play scales (and then played the Klose scales) at 112. I certainly can play the easy ones at 112, I went home and did the scale of the week at that speed. Perhaps he wouldn't have counted it as playing for some reason, but I didn't hear any glitches.
I got a whiff of this problem at the previous lesson and put it down to my insecurity. But this was said pretty point blank. He also intially offered to cut the day's lesson to a half hour. I asked if I should bother to come back and then the lesson continued. Clearly, I am not a student he is interested in helping.
I really appreciate the positive support here. People who aren't the first chair have a right to breath air and blow it through a clarinet too.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2006-11-17 17:51
ginny wrote:
> One thing he said was that he'd never succeeded in teaching an
> adult student (read that older person) to play fast
Keep looking. Not everyone is cut out to teach adults. It is a very different ball game.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-11-17 18:27
So many responses in support of we older players is an encouraging sign of things to come. Two dynamics are at work here: (1) as boomer’s age and enter their Senior years, many will do as some of us have done, pick up enjoyable activities from years gone by, such as playing the clarinet; (2) Senior citizens, in general, have been put on the shelf too early, and as a result decline too soon. A positive attitude toward aging is necessary to reap full benefit of the senior years. If you have a teacher actively discouraging you, or making you feel older than you are, hasta la vista baby!
Forest
Returning Clarinetist
Age 69
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-11-17 18:30
Ginny,
Unfortunately, today's curriculum rarely demands an "audition" to see how a future teacher deals with people - all that counts is technique and knowledge, rarely how it is "sold" to the victims...or only the "sunny face" is shown (that doesn't apply to music teachers alone but even elementary school teachers). And teaching adults is something quite different than teaching kids.
Dump the dud. Get one who's used to deal with stubborn seniors. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-17 20:33
I just called and informed him that we'd had are last lesson yesterday.
I was too much reminded of my primary classical guitar teacher for my first degree, who said to me that women were too weak to play the instrument. My playing improved incredibly when I took a single lesson from a woman who was my roomate at a Segovia masterclass (I didn't make the cut to get in that, but she had.) Teacher expectation will typically be met.
Again I really appreciate the support and advice. I will look for another teacher next week.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-11-17 21:17
I doubt you'll find many examples of people who have taken up an instrument well into adult life, and become really fine players. (OK, prove me wrong!)
I do know of two examples of eminent professional players (not of clarinet) in the UK who took up their instruments post-adolescence. But both were accomplished musicians already.
That doesn't mean that adult beginners are wasting their time, or incapable of progress. My personal experience, in fact, is that if you learn an instrument as an adult you initially make much faster progress than a child would. The first six months are easy. The second six months you are back to earth with a bump.
And of course there's a lot of difference between the clarinet beginner who has never played an instrument before, and the clarinet beginner who's an accomplished guitar player, and the clarinet beginner who has a postgrad degree in oboe!
tictactux wrote "Playing by ear goes a lot faster than sight-reading an unknown piece, of course." No "of course" about it. My experience is exactly the opposite. All generalisations are wrong.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-11-17 21:52
David Peacham "All generalisations are wrong."
Including this one: "I doubt you'll find many examples of people who have taken up an instrument well into adult life, and become really fine players."
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-17 22:12
David Peacham "All generalisations are wrong."
I took that as being dry humor and it gave me a chuckle as it is itself a generalisation.
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-11-17 23:34
"teaching adults is something quite different than teaching kids"... which may be why it is called andragogy instead of pedagogy.
Typically: adults need to be involved in the planning and evaluation of their instruction; experience (including mistakes) provides the basis for adult learning activities; adults are most interested in learning subjects that have immediate relevance to their job or personal life; and adult learning is more problem-centered rather than content-oriented.
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Author: marzi
Date: 2006-11-18 00:07
its a common assumption that older women can't play , period, no matter how long they've been playing, they take one look at me and thats what they assume, and will be very condescending until they figure out thats not true, on the other hand they will assume the guy next to me thats older and only recently been learning the clarinet can play everything, (he' s in the same groups i play in) , drives me nuts.
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2006-11-18 00:27
Yeah, Ginny. Glad to hear that you are going to look for a teacher with a more open mind.
I was a returnee to clarinet at 39 and within the last 6-7 years have become proficient enough to cover the lead chair in my church orchestra, and we are GOOD. Not a jr. high sounding group. (No offense intended to the kids.) Also within the last few years, I have learned to play flute, sax, piano and recently added bass clarinet back into the arsenal at 46. I hope to keep on learning and growing as long as God allows.
A local pops group that I recently began playing with on bass clarinet and sax is mostly older folks. I feel like one of the youngsters in the group. We have a lot of strong players there as well.
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Author: jmcgann
Date: 2006-11-18 00:35
Quote:
David Peacham "All generalisations are wrong."
Including this one: "I doubt you'll find many examples of people who have taken up an instrument well into adult life, and become really fine players."
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
www.johnmcgann.com
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-18 18:52
I have found another teacher to try, who teaches for adult extension of the SF conservatory. On the phone he seemed to have a much more believable attitude toward adults and more experience. In 20 years my former teacher has only taught 12 adults it turns out, and evidently did not feel sucessful with them.
One of my fears was that the attitude of newly former teacher would make my stage fright rear it's ugly head at my gig last night playing Balkan and Klezmer music last night. I made some mistakes but I had a wonderful and fearless time playing and got a pretty darn good reception. In fact the very supportive people here really helped me, and I thank you for it.
Post Edited (2006-11-18 18:52)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-11-20 12:25
Ginny, glad to hear you found a new teacher. No use wasting your lesson time on trying to change an age-bigot's mind: You were smart to let that be his problem, not your problem. If you or someone else runs into an ageist fuddy-duddy again, it might help to introduce yourself by emphasizing your other musical experiences: Instead of describing yourself as a beginner on clarinet, describe yourself as a doubler adding a new instrument.
Also, after escaping a fuddy-duddy, it would be perfectly honest to introduce yourself to a prospective new teacher by saying that you quit the clarinet and now you're going back to it. You don't have to mention that you quit it last week. If the teacher assumes you quit as a child and now you're rusty, well.... I think come-backers get a bit more respect than adult beginners.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-11-20 16:25
Lelia said:
If the teacher assumes you quit as a child and now you're rusty, well.... I think come-backers get a bit more respect than adult beginners.
I may be among the minority with respect to the teachers/clarinetists you've met, but I really really really do NOT feel this way. I have taught exactly 2 adult beginners, both of them women around 50, and enjoyed every minute of it! Every student I have receives the same level of respect, whether it's a 10-year-old trying to fit their mouth around this "thing" or a 50-year-old doing the same thing...or even a 17-year-old whiz kid!
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-20 17:05
Katrina wrote:
> Lelia said:
>
> If the teacher assumes you quit as a child and now you're
> rusty, well.... I think come-backers get a bit more respect
> than adult beginners.
>
>
> I may be among the minority with respect to the
> teachers/clarinetists you've met, but I really really really do
> NOT feel this way. I have taught exactly 2 adult beginners,
> both of them women around 50, and enjoyed every minute of it!
> Every student I have receives the same level of respect,
> whether it's a 10-year-old trying to fit their mouth around
> this "thing" or a 50-year-old doing the same thing...or even a
> 17-year-old whiz kid!
Too bad you're so far away since you also play Balkan I seem to recall as well as more typical clarinet stuff.
The first teacher knew my background actually, it's possible I just suck - but as I said the gig went pretty well on Friday, I got a fair number of positive remarks.
Maybe it's a thing with those who are in the Bonade tradition or something as I have encountered this with other Bonaders, though it could be unrelated. However - I made sure the new teacher did not have Bonade as a pedogog model.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-11-21 04:04
Yeah, Ginny, California and Minnesota are not close! And you're right, I do play Balkan too.
Strange you mention Bonade, because I'm part of that tradition too. I don't necessarily use a strict Bonade syllabus with all of my students because I teach so many 5-9th graders (and older too) who are not ready for that kind of work. Aside from that, not all of them want to pursue that kind of work!
Dunno if that's just me or if it is indeed a Bonade thing. (FWIW, my "pedigree" is with Larry McDonald, Clark Brody, and Robert Marcellus)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2006-11-21 07:05
Ginny,
It is funny you mention language learning in adults. I teach English as a Second Language. All of my students are adults. They don’t have any trouble learning. In my experience, I have found the stereotype that only children can learn to be totally false. Adults can learn just as fast as children, and in some case, even faster.
We have all heard kids play musical instruments- are they great?? Can they play i tune?? Or even in TIME??
No, they are not and they can't. However, in a few years, they can do things at an okay level and by the time they have finished college, many of them can play really well. BUT, when they finish college, they have been playing for about 10-16 years, on average. My personal belief is this- any physically healthy adult that puts as much time in as kids will be able to play at the same level in 10 years.
So the question is “why don’t they?” Unlike kids, all us adults have jobs and families and lives that take up our time. How many adults that have otherwise non-musical lives have an extra 4 hours (or more) per day to devote to music like kids do?? Or even 1 hour?! Also, unlike kids, adults KNOW what sounds bad and often we get frustrated and give up. Kids don’t know what sounds good or bad- they only know when their teacher said “not like that” and “that’s good”.
So my belief is- if any healthy adult puts in the kind of time that kids put in, then they will progress at the same pace. No doubt.
So if someone wants to start clarinet when they are, let’s say 50, and practice regularly. They will be able to play like high school freshmen when they are 54. Not bad, I think.
In your case, Ginny, you have musical abilities and the only thing that you have to do is learn to control your fingers and lungs in a new way. Not that hard. If you had advanced arthritis in your hands then I think it would be a different story. But in that case, you would have the same trouble typing on this BBoard and playing guitar, too.
However, you must have a good teacher that will treat you in a way that allows you to progress.
Best- Sky
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-21 13:26
That is a really nice response, Sky -- you make valid points.
Another thing I remember about learning theory (the theory of how people learn, not music theory) is that if one has become literate in *any* language before about age 12, learning a subsequent language becomes much easier. There may even be something about the process of learning, itself, that makes further learning easier.
Music is often spoken of as a "language," and I would't be surprised at all to find that a person who has learned one instrument well would progress more rapidly with the second, and subsequent, instruments (I think we call these folks "doublers" -- they are musically multilingual.)
So, maybe all those accordion lessons kids took back in 1958 really weren't useless, after all . . .?
Susan
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-11-21 18:29
Having seen the name of my teacher, Daniel Bonade, bandied about here, I feel that I have to come to his defense. No time during my tenure as a student of his did I ever hear him deprecate another player because of age. (And he had plenty to say of players for other reasons!) I was always in awe at my lessons when this old man (DB) would grab my clarinet to see why my reed sounded so bad and rip off a scale or two at breakneck speed with astonishing clarity at his advanced age (mid 60's)! And he was retired from active playing at that time -- although he continued to play second clarinet on the "Voice of Firestone" telecasts.
Now that I have reached an advanced age (75) I'm less in awe. Although my fingers never reached the same agility as Mr. Bonade's, I'm still able to negotiate the orchestra repertoire respectably -- played second clarinet on Firebird and Don Juan with a very good orchestra just this past week! And if I could make myself practice every day instead of my computer addiction I could probably still do even better!
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-11-21 18:45
It sounds like it's not a Bonade thing then from what you here say. It just happens that those I've encountered seem to have that view.
Thanks again to all - very interesting about the language aquistition and I will check the websites out.
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Author: clarinetistra
Date: 2006-11-22 03:26
Hi Ginny-
If it doesn't work out with the new teacher, let me know. I teach clarinet at House of Woodwinds in San Ramon and enjoy teaching adults. In addition to being trained classically, I perform Balkan music on a regular basis as well.
mary
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-11-22 12:52
Sky wrote,
>>It is funny you mention language learning in adults. I teach English as a Second Language. All of my students are adults. They don’t have any trouble learning. In my experience, I have found the stereotype that only children can learn to be totally false. Adults can learn just as fast as children, and in some case, even faster.
>>
I agree that the stereotype is false. I also teach ESL and adult literacy, as a volunteer in programs that are free of charge for the students. The ability to learn a foreign language or to learn to read varies enormously between individuals. Some of that ability to learn seems innate. I'd love to report that I'm the biggest teaching genius in the known universe and that all of my students perform fabulously, but the truth is that I've had plenty of failures, with students of all ages who made little progress. For some students, either I just wasn't the right teacher or I couldn't figure out the right approach. Other students led such hectic lives (two jobs, many kids) that they couldn't concentrate and study effectively. In other cases, I suspected dyslexia. In some cases, illness, brain damage or substance abuse got in the way. Sometimes short-term memory problems interfered with learning, although many healthy people in their 80s and even 90s can and do learn new things. Meanwhile, one of the most important things I've learned is never to assume, from the way a student looks, that I know anything about how well that student will learn.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2006-11-22 12:55)
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The Clarinet Pages
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