 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-10-17 09:17
Hi
I have recently purchased a beautiful Leblanc LL Full Boehm B flat clarinet, and have been trying to find out how old it might be, but that seems difficult. The previous owner bought it second hand about 25 year ago, and the serial number is 48408. Does anyone know anything about these clarinets, and when they were made, and possibly how old this particular one might be? I am guessing mid to late 70s but really don't know. I am also wanting to buy a new case for it, as the old one is not anywhere nice enough for such a champion instrument. That might be difficult, though, as the length of the clarinet is different from a standard B flat, and I don't presume cases for Full Boehm clarinets are that common. I plan to have it serviced and repadded shortly to restore it to its full glory, but even in its present state it plays beautifully, very sweet - the bottom E flat is gorgeous!
Pathik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-17 09:44
Another LL (and full Boehm) owner! One day full Boehms will rule the world!
The case my LL full Boehm came to me in is a Winter case with part of the inside chopped away so the upper part of the bottom joint is now overhanging the case compartment (where reeds, pullthroughs, etc. are kept), and there'sa cut out in the bottom of the lower joint section so the thumbrest fits as well.
One thing that you might find useful is having an adjustable thumbrest fitted so you can use the low Eb key without the risk of RH finger 3 coming off the tonehole (I use the low Eb as a mid Bb as well) - by finding the right position of the thumbrest it does make things a lot easier. On mine the low Eb touch was set too far south, so I bent it up so it's much nearer the E/B touch, and had to file a bit off the connection soldered onto the underside of the E/B key as it stuck out too far.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-10-17 10:27
Thanks for your response. I think the case might be the original one, as the various parts of the clarinet fit into the different sections of the case quite snugly, although the barrel must be attached to the upper joint for this to work (and I don't really like keeping it like that). The case is a bit tattered and smells a bit funny as well, so I thought it might be good to get a brand new one if I could find one.
Yes, I have decided to get an adjustable thumbrest for it, not only for the reason you suggest, but also to get one with a ring on it so it can be used with my FHRED peg, which I have come to rely on.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-17 11:18
I put the thumbrest from my Marigaux cor anglais on my Leblanc as it was left redundant after I took it off (it didn't have a sling ring attached to it so I had a Howarth one put on instead), but if you need an adjustable thumbrest with a sling ring (so you can attach the FHRED), the ones fitted to Howarth XL cors anglais work well, but you will need to widen the slot in the FHRED with a file so it fits. Also the thumbrest will need to be fitted higher up the bottom joint, so the existing screw holes may need to be filled.
I fitted one of these to an old B&H Imperial for a lady who is recovering from a right shoulder injury so she can use the FHRED with it - she was using a sling before which didn't do much for her shoulder or posture.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cdgaflash
Date: 2006-10-17 16:23
Hi,
I've got a Buffet RC Full Boehm Bb.
I modified a Pro-Tec double case to house the Full Boehm with my LeBlanc L200 A.
I was able to pull out the "box" that held the Bb clarinet parts. I peeled back the velour and then carved out the styrofoam underneath to accomodate the lower joint. I pulled the velour back over and reglued it back into the case. I would think that it might be the same with single soft cases...
Good luck.
Eric
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-10-17 16:36
Many years ago a high school band and orchestra mate of mine bought a Selmer Full Boehm with plateau key rings!
I've never seen or heard of one since...has anyone seen of heard of one around.
Story has a sad ending, after high school he moved to LA and had his clarinet and both saxes
stolen out of his car trunk.
But he weathered that, eventually earned a Ph.d and these days is enjoying a ruddy old age as director of two community bands and the LAPD concert band! Who'd thot....
Clarinet Redux
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-17 20:27
Gosh, O G, I'd never heard of a plateaued FB ! I have given my old [1920's]Penzel-Mueller FB to our local history museum, and my Selmer [Model 25, I'm told] to the Musical Museum, Vermillion S D, keeping my 1932 FB Selmer R I for possible need-use [somewhat unlikely, tho]. What extra-keyed Leblancs I have and have seen, have been very good insts, with some slightly different characteristics, from the comparable 17/6's. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-17 21:14
When I bought my Series 9 A FB horn to match my Bb horn, I got a standard Selmer double case as part of hte purchase. I then sent the double case to Selmer (it was fitted for standard length horns), who rebuilt it to fit the longer instruments. No cost, no bother. Of course, this was some time ago, back when the case innards were plywood cutouts rather than blow moldings.
But, it can't hurt to contact the manufacturer and see what they can do for you.
I picked up a Series 10S full Boehm horn a few months ago, and the case it came in (originally, as shipped by Selmer) was obviously fitted for the horn (i.el, the lower joint was long enough and the upper joint was shorter. However, the case as designed was inadequate; the lower joint compartment was both too shallow and too short by an eighth of an inch. (It was a blown urethane tray, with velvet cloth glued over same.) I finally ended up pulling it out, grinding the shell of the case insert with a Dremel motor tool, and then regluing the cloth over same.
Even with the modifications, the case is still not a good fit. You can see that the case does not close well, and I'm hesitant to trust the two latches. (A web strap with a buckle handles the problem quite well.) All in all, not a case worthy of the horn.
Ultimately, I'd like to have this horn in a tray-pack arrangement with my baritone and flute. However, that dream is still well down the road...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-17 22:20
My Series 9 set are in a Yamaha Custom double case which I've modified by chopping and filling in the polystyrene tray to accommodate the long bottom joints. The top joints fit, though the Series 9 top joints are slightly shorter than my CT top joints so there's a tiny bit of end play in the case.
I used to carry my old Centered Tone set in the Yamaha case which fitted them perfectly as they're 19/7 (or System N.6 in Selmer's books).
I use an old full Boehm Centered Tone single case for my Bb with an oboe d'amore case cover to keep it tidy - but the barrel stays on the top joint which I'm not all that keen on, though I do make sure the cork is well greased and I always dry the top tenon and barrel sockets well (and all the others with a seperate piece of kitchen towel, not the pullthrough) before putting it away.
My LL full Boehm won't fit in the Selmer case because of the top joint side keys, the bottom joint is slightly shorter than the Selmer at the tenon end and because of the adjustable thumbrest fitted, the lid won't close.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Annika
Date: 2006-10-19 13:02
Hi Pathik,
Regarding the serial number:
This is actually not very helpful at all, but for what it's worth ... If Leblanc made all their clarinets in strict numerical order regardless of model, my L200 is just slightly newer than your LL, as my instrument's number is 48507. The problem is that I only roughly know the age of it. I bought it used from my clarinet teacher in 1985. As I remember it, he said he had bought it new either five or seven years earlier. I've tried to crossexamine my mind, but I really can't remember for sure which it was! Anyway that would date my instument to 77-80 or so and also support your guess that your LL is from the mid to late seventies.
Annika
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-19 13:25
I pretty much agree with Annika re: ser. #'s. My newest Leblanc is an L7 #43xxx which the originak buyer says is about 1980. This L series had many models of increasing "L" #, but the LL s [Leon Leblanc's "flagship" model] were made over an extended period starting [possibly] as early as about the 1960's. Chuck Hoffman [chazman, I believe] is compiling Leb's model history, so look up his present listings, and perhaps contacting him directly. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-19 13:43
My LL full Boehm is 575xx - I think it's around 10-15 years old but in excellent shape - the finish on the wood is impeccable! I don't think it got much playing before I bought it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-10-20 08:08
Many thanks to you all for your information and suggestions. The actual age of the clarinet is a question of curiosity more than anything else on my part, but when you come across something really good it's nice to know as much as possible about it. As for the case, somebody at Dawkes music here in the UK is looking into getting hold of one for me that would fit the Full Boehm clarinet. Might not be possible, but who knows. I will certainly get a full service done on it asap, including repad and a new thumbrest. There's a rather strong smell emanating from it, something perfume-like, very strange, and I don't really like it. I am hoping that the smell will wear off after a while, because it is rather distracting, or do old clarinets tend to be a bit smelly? I wouldn't have thought so, but what do I know. Maybe whatever is done during the servicing process will get rid of it. I hope so, because this clarinet deserves to get a new lease on life. It's a rare and precious beauty. The guy I bought it from said he'd never used it much at all, so it's about time it got resurrected. My new special friend - they don't make 'em like this anymore!
Pathik
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-20 13:48
I've found that very old horns that have sat in their cases in storage for a long time will tend to pick up the mildew smell, but I've never seen (or should that be "smelled") one that came across as "perfumed". It's hard to say what a previous owner might have done, however.
Two ways of cleaning cases of smells exist in my play book. One is to run the horn and case through an ozonator. (This is a chamber owned by many moving and storage firms that puts the instrument into a high ozone environment, killing off all of the stuff that creates the "musty" smell.)
(A home version of this is offered here in the United States by the Sharper Image firm. It's a shoe deodorizer that uses ionized plates and an ozone generator to give the same treatment to shoes. (We use ours for hockey skates.) I've only tried it in one old case, but it did a pretty good job on that one, so you might look into acquiring one from that source. You'll have the added benefit of being able to use it on your shoes.)
The other method that I use is to ditch the case ASAP. I've got an old Conn saxophone that has been stripped down to bare metal and rebuilt, and the case that it came in was the poster child for mildew. The case was tossed and the horn is now largely "smell free" (only a careful sniff down at the bell ring reveals any lingering odor). Sometimes, the abrupt approach is the best one...
Of course, with a saxophone, getting a new case is not really a problem. I have yet to find a custom case source that will build me a "tray pack" for my bass (extended range Model 33) and soprano (full Boehm Series 10S) clarinets. Let me know if you find one...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2006-10-20 15:14
Count me in! I play a LL with all the extra keys...I love the side Eb key.
Would someone please tell me any pitch tendencies you notice between your LL and an R13. Are there any notes that tend to be sharp on an r13 and flat on the LL.
I'd appreciate any observations
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-10-20 15:15
I just bought a Pro Tec classic case to replace an old case I had for one of my Bb clarinets. I have a Sym 3 with articulated keys (Is this a 1/2 Boehm?) and tried it in the case to see if it would fit. The lower joint on the Symphonie 3 is longer than most Bb clarinets and I'm guessing since it has the articulated keys that it might be the same length as your full Boehm. Somebody out there may know if the length is the same. The Symphonie fits in this case pretty well. It's snug, but not tight and no keys touch anything that would cause a problem. I'll bet it would work with your and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, however the case is very nice. It just depends on what kind of things you are looking for in a case.
Packrat
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-20 15:27
On clarinets with an articulated G# the bottom joint is around 3 to 5mm longer than a standard clarinet, but the top joint is (usually) the same length as a standard clarinet when measured from end to end - the middle tenon is longer but the extra length for this tenon is achieved by cutting the shoulder for the tenon further up the joint towards the third fingerhole.
This will mean the bottom joint may be a tight fit in some cases, whereas the top joint will go straight in with no trouble.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-21 01:51
However, if your clarinet is one with all of the keys other than the low Eb extension, then the bottom joint will be shorter by about an inch or so.
I think that both Leblanc and Selmer offered the horns in this style (i.e. 19/7 rather than 20/7). However, as far as I actually remember seeing them, I only "literally" saw this variant in a horn from Leblanc. (It's also featured in the infamous chart of many clarinets once published by Heckel and reproduced in G. Rendall's book on the history of the clarinet.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-21 12:20
I saw a Selmer Recital with an articulated G# (on the famous auction site) which was strange, as I didn't think they offered that on any clarinets apart from the 10S at that time.
Here's a list of Selmer's keywork options for the 10S from the mid '80s:
N.1 - 17/6
N.1B - 18/6 (LH Ab/Eb lever)
N.2 - 17/7 (forked Eb)
N.6 - 19/7 (forked Eb, artic. G#, LH Ab/Eb lever)
N.8 - 20/7 (as N.6 but with low Eb)
So I suppose an articulated G# fitted to an otherwise standard 17/6 will be an N.3 or an N.4 - I reckon an N.5 is like the ones I've seen on eBay that are as N.6 but without the LH Ab/Eb lever (with only forked Eb and artic. G#) - which is the same system as the Leblanc Pete Fountain clarinets I've seen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-10-21 12:57
Full Boehm has ruled the world prior to now, and may again as you say, one day.
I played full Boehm Mazzeo System clarinets from about 1959 until ca 1997 or so interspaced with everything else as well. I had a wonderful full boehm Buffet, brand new, and several sets of others as well. In Boston in the 50s and 60s virtually everyone played either full boehm selmers or the model 55 which was then played by Gino Cioffi, Principal in the BSO, who played a full boehm without the low Eb, which he considered to be better intune then the ful boehm and lighter, which it was in the latter but not in the former because the low E he always played quite flat, which would not have been the case had he had the low Eb. When the orchestra played Mother Goose, by Ravel, which they seemed to do every other week, there is a big clarinet solo that goes down to low E forte and we, all of the students used to wait with unholy glee for him to be flat on the note and he never disappointed.
Curiously,many wonderful young guys and girls played everything on one clarinet, a full boehm which made just about everything written playable on the one, including Peter and the Wolf, both for the main solo, and for the cadenza when the Cat Climbs Up the Tree. That was fun because it made one learn to transpose and once I played the Pines of Rome on the Bb clarinet, not the A for which it is written. With full-boehm Mazzeo System, it makes all of those large intervals much easier than the A.
I often yearn for full boehm again. The criticism then was that they got out of adjustment, but I never found that the case, or perhaps I made it my business to make sure my business worked.
Full Boehm, we await thee for yet another coming.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2006-10-21 21:53)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-21 13:28
It's the way companies are run nowadays that has seen the demise of full Boehms.
My first Selmers were a pair of Centered Tones that had been left in someone's attic for around 15-20 years prior to me getting them in 1988 - when a local trumpet player mentioned he has a set of clarinets I asked him to bring them in to me. He did the fllowing week and I was gobsmacked to see they were loaded up with extra gadgets that I knew I would benefit from, otherwise I'd probably have gone down the R13 route as that was the 'must have' clarinet for the masses.
But money was an object as I was about to start college and needed a pair of clarinets for very little money - and these Selmers were bought for £200 (a B12 was £279 back then). The were in a mess, but nothing that couldn't be put right. The keys were gold lacquered unplated nickel silver, so I cleaned them and had them silver plated, then rebuilt them and they played beautifully, even my clarinet teacher was 'envious of the high notes' I could get on these (he's a Buffet RC player).
What annoyed me was the ignorance of most other players, teachers and technicians that said I shoud never use the forked Eb, artic. G# and LH Eb key as that means I can never go back to playing a 'normal' (17/6) clarinet again! It's not as if I've had to learn a completely different fingering system as they're the same basic system but have some extra gadgets added, it's just that I have more options at my disposal - and it's not as if I'm going to be without my clarinets anyway as I do all the work on them myself (as I don't trust anyone else to go near them with a screwdriver). They've been totally reliable and I've never had anything go out of adjustment. When I do play a 17/6 (as in my R13 Eb clarinet) I must admit I do miss not having the forked Eb or LH Ab/Eb, but I just have to adapt to the circumstances - and not have to completely relearn the clarinet as people may have said.
But I've sort of 'retired' them as I now play on a set of Series 9 full Boehms full time, and keep a Leblanc LL full Boehm in my alto sax case as it's a sturdy and reliable instrument (as all well made clarinets are), and means there's a clarinet with me if I need it.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sherman
Date: 2006-10-21 13:39
Yes, I too miss that articulation for the Bb-Eb, and all the other things I had on my Mazzeo-System Full Boehm clarinets, including the covered the thumb and the articulated B-C# as well and the Eb connection to the C#, which I promptly took off because it simply made the fingering heavier in the hand. At that time, the general concensus was that the keywork on the Selmer was superior to Buffet, but I did have a full-boehm Buffet, brand new, which arrived out-of-adjustment, which I was about to return when a repairman asked me to hand it to him, and when he gave it back to me to try, it was perfect, a simple adjustment and it was fine and stayed that way.
I don't think it was the manufacurers who turned the system down, but the clarinetists in the orchestras, for except for the Boston Symphony, almost every other orchestra in the US played 17-6 Buffets and this was "basic training" for all students, two 17-6 Buffets in the coverd french case identified you as "one of the boys. or girls" when entering the cafeteria, the place for every comment ever heard about any teacher, student or clarinet. Or yesterdays performance for that matter.
Basically I have been a player of Selmers all my life, but I still carry around the Buffet stigma. I myself never suffered in the orchestra for playing Selmer, but I do know that some clarinetists did suffer at the hands of orchestras or woodwind sections that simply began a criticism of the Selmer performer until; he was hounded out or changed to the statust quo.
Too bad Mr Morales , who plays a Selmer Recital Clarinet as Principal in the Philadelphia Orchestra was not around then. I do believe however that Gino Cioffi,Principal of the Boston played the clarinet as well as anyone, ever, and he played Selmer as well.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2006-10-21 13:49)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-21 13:59
Many TKS, Sherman for your 2 fine commenaries on F B experience. My first "good cl" was a 1920's P M F B, so I grew up with it, using the many fingerings possible as needed for school, jazz, college, small symp playing. Its now in our local museum as played in our "beginning" Symphony. I bot, and now have given to the S D Music Museum an early Selmer F B, so I've been busy tweaking my Sel R I F B [1932] and trying to "optimize" choice of mouthpiece. Much fun, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-21 14:01
I was never ashamed to carry my Selmer double case around - in fact I felt proud that I wasn't following the herd of Buffet players.
But having seen the Lewington pricelist with all the Leblancs listed, and knowing that as a Noblet Artist plays very well, a Leblanc LL can only be beter still - and they offered them in full Boehms as well. These would have easily been my clarinets of choice over the Buffets, but the Selmers just happened to come along at the right time.
And buying a full Boehm Leblanc LL has shown I still have a soft spot for the 'true' Leblancs.
It's a shame how companies like Leblanc and Miyazawa have all 'conformed' when I used to admire them for their uniqueness and boldness of design.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-10-21 15:16
Thanks for all the input from everybody regarding full Boehm clarinets - really amazing! I've learnt a lot from reading these post, and it's great that there are more Full Boehm fans out there. I don't quite understand why these clarinets are not more popular, particularly as an extra note down below can only be a bonus. That low E flat will certainly come in handy for my C minor blues statements :-)
The ozonator sounds like a great idea for the clarinet (I hope to ditch the case), but I have no idea where I would find one of those in the UK. The smell, which seems to come mainly from the clarinet itself, is hard to describe. It's like a mixture of "musky" perfume, old fags, mold and something else quite undefinable. The smell is possibly a bit less now than when I got it, but still very noticeable. Is whatever's done during a full service/overhaul likely to make the clarinet cleaner? At the moment it's a bit grubby, and I'm hoping that the natural smell of the wood will eventually be more prominent than those other smells, whatever their cause is.
The Wiseman case looks good, but is unfortunately way out of my price range. It costs nearly as much as I paid for the clarinet, but thanks anyway for the suggestion. The Protec case might be an idea, but I would have to find out if it's suitable. The length of the lower joint of my LL Full Boehm is 29.4 centimetres, so it's quite a bit longer than a standard B flat clarinet in other words. Otherwise the rest of the clarinet has more or less the same measurements as my Leblanc Concerto II.
Pathik
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-21 15:40
Re stinky cases:
I've been successful with spraying the interior with Febreze (or a similar couch/carpet de-stencher), then airing them on direct sunlight (UV might bleach the velvet but also destroys or neutralizes odourous sources), repeat as necessary. Worked with suitcases, worked with instrument cases, worked even with car trunks.
You will have to clean the clarinet too, of course.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-21 15:51
The only makers that could offer a single case to fit are Ripamonti who do clarinets with a long bottom joint (the low E issues from a tonehole on the longer bottom joint rather than the bell), or Amati who still make reasonably priced full Boehm systems, though I don't know what their quality is like now compared to what they were.
-------
With the full Boehms you have the forked Eb which makes playing C-Eb (and G-Bb) a doddle - no need for the side Eb/Bb key, play C or G as normal (xxx|ooo) and lift your middle finger (xox|ooo) for the Eb or Bb. So a °7 arpeggio starting on F# or A means when you go up from C you only lift LH finger 2 for the Eb.
B-C# and F#-G# trills are made by holding down the C#/G# key and trilling with RH finger 2 only. And the extra touch for the C#/G# key for RH finger 2 is very useful for an altissimo E-F trill (E oxx|oooEb, F oxx|o,ooEb) as well as the C-Db and G-Ab trills.
Low Eb can be used as an alternative to throat Bb with the speaker key - so the concert Db arrangement of 'Begin the Beguine' means you can use this Bb which is fuller in tone to the standard throat Bb fingering, and has more substance than the throat Bb fingering using the side key.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cdgaflash
Date: 2006-10-21 17:37
Hi,
Another couple of options for the "stinky" case.
I have made a small fabric pouch that I filled with baking soda and put under the part of the case that houses the joints. I just lifted up the "box" and inserted the pouch under it. Probably could be left in interior storage area too...
I have also used fabric softener sheets (for the dryer) which have helped with the "stink" of an older case (mold, breakdown of glue). Febreeze does work pretty well too, but if the smell is due to the glue breaking down, the "treatment" will need to be repeated.
Carving out a Pro-tec/similar case would probably be the most cost effective way for you to fit your LeBlanc Full Boehm in a new case. It worked for me. My RC Full Boehm is very happy/supported in my double Pro-tec case.
(My L200A is from the late seventies/early 80's according to LeBlanc. I was told it was the top of the line at the time. It is a wonderful horn, so smooth across all registers.)
Good luck.
Eric
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-21 19:25
Chris P - I've been rehearsing "Beguine" and find that in cl D [concert C] it lays quite well, and avoids our bad Bb. I believe thats the key Artie played it in, may have to dig out my old 78 of it to be sure. I recall Stardust in "5" conc. Db, most of my old ad libs were in "civilized" keys. Comments? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-10-21 19:35
All that spraying Fabreez about will get you is a masking of the smell, not the removal of it. Like many toilet room deodorants, the spray works partially by masking the odor (with another odor) and partially by disabling your sense of smell. (It's always cleverly hidden in the list of ingredients, but it's always there if you know what to look for.)
Most of the folks who I know who use the sprays are smokers, whose sense of smell is so messed up in the first place that a little more meddling doesn't really matter that much.
The Sharper Image firm does business through the internet (but does not have the shoe deodorizer in its current inventory). The best bet is to call a few local moving and storage firms and ask if they have an "ozone room". If you are lucky, you might be able to piggyback the treatment of your little clarinet case with someone's larger order and get it done for free.
Regarding the horns themselves, I've used all of the options they offer pretty heavily, save only the low Eb. While I value the even tone that the emission of the low E through the body of the horn rather than through the bell, I've never found the middle Bb that it also offers to be that great of a note. I actually used it a couple of times during the last show season (forcing myself to do so), but found that the normal Bb (thumb and first finger, LH) was a better fit for virtually all situations.
As for using the Bb horn in place of the A, I've never had to resort to that. 'Generally' (and note the slight emphasis), the A horn was specified for one of two reasons: key signature simplification or range. In the case of Peter And The Wolf, it looks to me that the first of these was the reason. Being able to reach that extra semitone southwards on the Bb horn isn't near as important as playing it on the A and losing a few accidentals.
One place where I'd make the horn shift in a New York Minute would be with the bass clarinet stuff in Grofe's On The Trail. No question there that shifting to an A bass smoothes out the famous bass clarinet solos in that piece.
Alas, the full Boehm clarinet is doomed to obscurity as long as they are not freely available to be tried and purchased. With the only major maker offering them being Amati, down from Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc and Heckel in the past, that's not a circumstance likely to reoccur anytime soon. More's the pity...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-21 19:40
Don Berger wrote:
> Chris P - I've been rehearsing "Beguine" and find that
> in cl D [concert C] it lays quite well, and avoids our
> bad Bb. I believe thats the key Artie played it in,
> may have to dig out my old 78 of it to be sure.
Artie Shaw played Begin the Beguine in concert D major (clarinet would be in its key of E major) ...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-21 20:19
TKS, GBK, lots of #'s, no wonder it sounded so good. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-10-21 23:38
Re the "ozone room" treatment - that's simply first rate pollution. While laser printer manufacturers had to zero or minimize ozone exhausts, sharper image and other freeloaders happily produce ozone while governmental agencies urge parents not to let their kids out during noon hours, excactly because of ozone levels above warning thresholds.
You can get plenty of ozone free by opening your cases on the front porch during early afternoon hours; else get baking soda and a vacuum cleaner ready, they'll do a similar job as Febreze (which doesn't simply mask the odour as some might expect). I don't claim it's the best solution (which probably would be soap, water (or a carpet cleaner), a (wet) vacuum cleaner and sunlight), but ozone per se and in uncontrolled environments certainly isn't superior - discarding your stinky case might indeed be ecologically more efficient.
Well I know that true professionals give a hoot about the environment, be it sports people or musicians.
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-21 23:51
Three of the bands I've played in all have different arrangements of '...Beguine' - the key I know it's in is concert D which is my favouite key as it's bright, but one band has it in Db and another band has it in C. I reckon the factor behind this is probably down to the speed of the transcriber's turntable or tape player.
I prefer it in concert D due to the fact of the held B across the break - the held throat Bb and A in the other versions isn't good due to the weakness of tone in this area.
But we've discussed this before anyway.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: packrat
Date: 2006-10-22 06:01
I know a 3/4 Boehm will fit in the Pro Tech case. I tried it. Does anyone know if a 3/4 Boehm and a full Boehm are the same length?
PR
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Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-10-22 06:36
PR: The length of the lower joint of my LL Full Boehm is 29.4 centimetres, otherwise the measurements are very close to an ordinary B flat clarinet, at least as measured against my Leblanc Concerto II. I presume you have one of these Pro Tech cases, so do you think it will fit in it?
The discussion above re cleaning old cases is interesting, but as for this particular case, I am really really hoping to chuck it out, because even if I could get it properly cleaned, it's still not that great to look at (I like looking at pretty things :-)
Chris P: Many thanks for the fingering suggestions for FB clarinets. I am obviously new to the wonderful world of FB clarinets, so this is very helpful.
Pathik
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-22 13:21
Hi P R - On my 1932 Selmer F B, the additional "tube length" needed for the Eb is about 1 1/2 ", so that lengthens the L J, but the manner in which the Artic C#/G# is provided [on the L J of my Sel and my Leblanc Dyn 2, some makers may put in on the U J {Help?} ] could make another inch difference. My Pruefer 3/4 ths F B is single bodied, so an old metal cl case is needed. The advice given above , "measure and modify" is correct. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-22 17:57
I've measured the joint lengths on my Centered Tone pair (both N.6, or 19/7, or ¾ Boehm) and my Series 9 pair (both N.8, or 20/7, or full Boehm).
The results are (in mm):
CT N.6 Bb: TJ 221, BJ 260
CT N.6 A: TJ 238, BJ 280
Series 9 N.8 Bb: TJ 219, BJ 300
Series 9 N.8 A: TJ 236, BJ 318
And some other clarinets:
Selmers:
K Series full Boehm (N.8) Bb: TJ 221, BJ 297
CT full Boehm (N.8) Bb: TJ 221, BJ 297
70xx s/n 17/6 (N.1) A: TJ 238, BJ 275
Leblanc:
LL full Boehm Bb: TJ 223, BJ 293
Misc.
B&H Regent Bb (17/6): TJ 224, BJ 253
Yamaha YCL-24 Bb (converted to 18/7): TJ 224, BJ 252
Given the fact I've used a cheapo fabric tape measure rather than verniers as mine are limited to 133mm, it's not all that easy to read as they mark the cm in the middle of the divisions (by the 5mm mark) rather at the beginning of each cm division, so these measurements may be out by +/- 1mm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-10-25 13:17)
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The Clarinet Pages
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