 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jmberch
Date: 2006-10-17 15:43
I was thinking about trying out a crystal mouthpiece. does anyone have any suggestions. do they make your tone bright or thin? please share experiences with crystal mouthpieces, and compare them with rubber mouthpices.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-17 15:55
I use a Pomarico crystal mouthpiece on bass clarinet, and I sometimes use a Vandoren A1 (also by Pomarico) on Bb - you will probably have to use a different reed when trying thee out as your normal reeds may not be right. If I use too hard a reed the tone is very stuffy, but getting the right reed makes it sing - it has a larger tone chamber and bore than all my other mouthpieces and worked particularly well with a B&H 1010 due to the large bore.
Anyone know anything about Selmer Clarion crystal mouthpieces? Are they Italian, French or US-made?
The one I have in mind is a B facing - would this have a long or short lay?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-10-17 16:49
I play crystals on Eb soprano, Bb soprano, and bass clarinets, all Pomaricos, but all have been refaced because I felt that 'as received' from the factory they were excessively resistant and the sound was too bright and harsh for my tastes. With a good refacing they play very well indeed, and being crystal I don't have to worry about them changing with time, temperature or humidity. Needless to say they are fragile and one has to be careful in handling them. On the other hand, they are easy to clean (it's just like washing dishes).
My comments about Pomaricos apply equally to Selmer Clarions, Vandoren crystals (now out of production, I believe), and O'Brien crystals. I'm not sure who made the Selmer Clarions, it's possible it was Pomarico.
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Author: jmberch
Date: 2006-10-17 16:55
what about the tone quality produced?how does it differ from a rubber mouthpiece?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-10-17 18:02
In my opinion, given similar facing curves, crystal and hard rubber mouthpieces are indistinguishable to the listener. However, this is a subject of some controversy, like all materials-related clarinet acoustics issues, and there is very little hard data but many (often conflicting) opinions on the subject.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-10-17 20:12
I echo Dave's comments, playing on glasses for Bb, alto and bass cls. He has refaced all except my Pomarico alto [a 3 Mellow], which prob. will be next. For my "style" of playing they provide more "mellow-dark" tonalities than most of my H R and plastic mps. Yes, reed selection is required, for me generally no harder than a 2 1/2. As to makers, I believe that O'Brien was the only one in the early days, and likely made the early Clarions etc, with Pomarico [possibly] the only maker now. Having had some contact with Manfredo Cavallini [Rome] and Riccardo [of Pom] perhaps they could comment on this history. As to compositional-character, we had a thread some time back [please Search] where, I believe, we concluded that glass is an amorphous, Very high melting point "liquid" , and is not crystalline in structure, so while "crystal" is often applied to expensive glass products, it is actually a misnomer to those of us with a "scientific view" of terminology. No big fire, please. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bill
Date: 2006-10-17 21:42
My glass mpcs. (both vintage Selmer HS series) play at a substantially lower pitch than most of my rubber mpcs.
They require a slightly softer reed and seem to improve cross-register playing.
One of the worst mpcs. I have ever played was an O'Brien that "The Doctor" (or the contributor formerly known as "The Doctor") unfused from an old barrel for me. He liked it! I thought it was miserable, and I have a lot of experience playing on old-fashioned short lays.
Bill.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-10-17 21:55
I used to own a crystal Pete Fountain mpc that I used on occasion. I stopped using it when I decided it didn't respond like the ebonite or wood mouthpieces I liked. I don't think it gave me an edge on jazz or anything of that nature. Also, I dropped it and broke it. A BIG downfall (so to speak) for players using crystals.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-10-17 22:17
Before you judge crystal (or more properly, "glass" -- thanks, Don!) mouthpieces too harshly on the basis of the material they are made from, permit me to reiterate this argument: The two major contributors to the sound and response of any clarinet mouthpiece are (a) the facing curve, which includes the tip opening; and (b) the interior dimensions (baffle shape and depth, window size and shape, etc.). Of these, (a) is generally the larger contributor. Finally, the overall pitch level is mostly determined by the volume of the interior, but also to some extent by the aforementioned factors (a) and (b).
Now, crystal is a difficult material to work with. Easy to mold, perhaps, but difficult to machine, grind, sand or file. It is (in my opinion) by far the most difficult material to reface, even worse than stainless steel (#2 for difficulty). It's my belief, based on having played many dozens of glass mouthpieces, that because they are so difficult to face properly, they rarely are! Hence, they are more likely to be stuffy, unresponsive, 'reed-unfriendly', lacking in projection, etc., than are mouthpieces made from easier materials to work with (of which hard rubber is by far the easiest).
My point is that, given a proper facing, a glass mouthpiece can (and should) blow freely, respond nicely, sound great and play at pitch. It is the DIFFICULTY in applying that correct facing to glass, NOT any inherent properties of the material itself, that causes most glass/'crystal' mouthpieces to play poorly. My opinions only, not necessarily those of the Webmasters, void where prohibited, your mileage may vary, yada yada...........
End of sermon.
By the way, I've dropped glass mouthpieces twice in my life. The first time it shattered into a dozen pieces. The second time, I dropped one onto a hard concrete floor and watched in horror as it BOUNCED multiple times, finally coming to rest -- totally undamaged! I was amazed -- never could figure that one out.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-17 22:39
I shattered the tip and rails on my beloved B46 mouthpiece on a concrete floor when I shook it while it was still in the barrel - the mouthpiece shot out of the barrel and onto the concrete. I rebuilt it and used it for a while until I went onto a 5RV Lyre, and now an M15.
Strange than fiction, a friend of mine did exactly the same thing in the same way and the same damage as a result, and her's was also a B46! Just as well I bought her A1 crystal off her not long before.
My original A1 crystal was much better than my current one.
So et me get this right - Gino Cioffi played a 19/7 large bore Selmer (BT or CT?) with a crystal mouthpiece. That was the equipment I used when I studied clarinet back in the late '80s - I didn't plan it that way, it just sort of happened.
Though I may not be Gino Cioffi, I can at least aspire to what he did.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jmberch
Date: 2006-10-17 23:05
hmmm....are there such things as glass blanks, if so, could i send them to someone, anyone that makes custom mouthpieces, and have them use the same tip opening and all that stuff on the crystal one?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-18 00:29
In the early 70's I selected a pair of Vandoren crystal mouthpieces from about two dozen samples. I still use them today as some of the primary mouthpieces I play with.
Crystal mouthpieces vary greatly. Within the same facing you will find that not only will no two play alike, you will wonder if they are even the same brand. This is common, due to the lack of control of the cooling of the raw material during production.
Once you find a crystal mouthpiece that you are satisfied with, the facing should last indefinitely. Hard rubber mouthpieces can change over time, and will often need to be touched up after years of heavy use.
At one time Vandoren made a line of crystal mouthpieces. If you were lucky enough to find one that was free blowing and with nice projection they were highly coveted, but the quality control of the facings was poor. Today, Vandoren is no longer producing them. Some of the older Pomaricos were also excellent - the GG series in particular were outstanding. I have one and like it very much. O'Brien also made crystal mouthpieces, but I never found one that I cared for. To me, they all felt very stuffy. I do know some players who use O'Brien's and they find them quite satisfactory. I believe at one time Jon Manasse used an O'Brien.
The newer Pomaricos (ruby, emerald diamond, etc..) have had mixed reaction from players. Some find them to be dark with a nice covered sound. Other players find them a bit too covered with not enough projection.
Thus, the old advice of "try as many samples as you can find" certainly applies...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-10-18 06:17
David Spiegelthal - is it possible that also the outer dimentions of the mouthpiece will have an affect? I mean, if mouthpieces have different outer dimentions in the beak then your mouth is actually in a slightly different position when you play and might make a difference in sound because of that?
GBK - just curious, what is the reason you use several main mouthpieces? Is it mostly to achieve different sounds? Is it for convinience of changing Bb and A clarinets? etc.
Thanks.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-10-18 06:36
I've always used different mouthpieces on the Bb and A clarinets.
Although it certainly does make switching between instruments much quicker, the main reason is that the mouthpiece I use on the A clarinet is slightly brighter sounding and has a bit quicker response than the one I use on the Bb clarinet.
Of course this does necessitate having two set-ups (mouthpiece/reed/ligature) prepared, instead of one...GBK
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Author: jack
Date: 2006-10-18 06:57
Crystal mouthpieces: If you find the right one, you will love it and swear by it. Later on, part of the facing will chip and you will feel like pure crap about it. Imho, non crystal mouthpieces play just as well and there is more to choose from. But, of course, if you find the perfect crystal mouthpiece you will love it and swear by it. Later on, of course, it will break and you will feel extremely glum, like crap. But, if you find the perfect crystal mouthpiece.........
Regards,
Jack
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-10-18 12:40
clarnibass -- to answer your question, I doubt that the outer dimensions of a mouthpiece affect me much, embouchure-wise. I'm a multi-doubler (all sizes of clarinets, all sizes of saxes) so I'm constantly changing from one size of mouthpiece to another, been doing it for so long that adapt instantly --- so minute differences in outer dimensions between two mouthpieces for the same instrument are not going to affect me. I'm pretty sure of that!
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