 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-05-29 23:17
Metal Clarinets! I'm just curious to hear from knowledgable clarinetists what they think about these oddities? One sold today on e-Bay for $1,750.00. Yep, no mistake on the decimal. Some folks want them REAL BAD!!
Now this was a really nice 5-piece Selmer (full Boehm) from the 30's or 40's, but what does a clarinetist expect to gain from this or other high end metal clarinets except a distinctive look? My question is NOT rhetorical . . . I'm seeking to understand, not belittle others.
And while we're at it, exactly how bad are the other low-price metal clarinets out there? Are they Bundy quality, or much worse? Can repair shops still service them adequately? Does anyone know of any other high-end models that have been produced? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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Author: Mark P.
Date: 2000-05-29 23:41
I just saw this auction on eBay as well and it went for about 3 times what I expected since it's not one of the solid silver double wall clarinets that Selmer made in the 20s. All I can say is that two or more collectors REALLY wanted this instrument. I've been watching eBay for 2 years and this is only the third metal Selmer I've seen.
Most of the metal clarinets, Cavaliers, Pedlars,Gloritones, and the like are not as good as a modern Bundy plastic clarinet.
I have a metal Conn from about 1940 that appears to be much better made than the common names and includes a gold washed bell and tuning mechanism likes what was on the Conn 6M saxes at that time. I haven't had it overhauled yet to see how it plays.
Repair shops can overhaul metal clarinets without too much diffulty as long as they are complete and not badly bashed. Some don't like to though because most metal clarinets are inferior by modern standards.
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Author: Doc
Date: 2000-05-29 23:59
Well, I see it this way all... I'm probably one of the few on this board that perfers a metal clarinet, though I really respect the pete fountains and R-13's. I don't play clarinet much for anything than big band/jazz applications. Most of the people on this board look at clarinet as a classical instrument. I have an old American KNight Clarinet. it's silver plated and works. I've been playing this instrument exclusively and it really has character to it. Unfortuntaly the character isn't that of which you would want for an orchestral situation. I'm sure that my setup also has a bit to do with it, but that's besides the point. these instruments have their highs and lows...
Lows: many have poor intonation, I've tried about 6 of them before I found this one that can play well in tune. They keywork/overall feel is awkward. I'm not sure about all of them, but mine is somewhat finiky about different mouthpieces. matainence can be a bit annoying with silver.
Highs: I have an distinct tone. The durability is about tenfold of a plastic clar and 20 of a wood. it's an interesting piece.
As you can see the lows obviously outweigh the highs. But for the tone for me I think it's worth it. It's like asking an artist why they are still playing on a con chu-berry... they'll tell you cause of the tone. Chu-Berry saxes have the old awkward keying, but I play a pre-chu on alto mearly cause I like the sound I get.
And this is my idea of the love for a metal clarinet
DAve
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-30 03:46
I have three metal "lightning rods". The silver Elkhart sounds really good and has a nice tone with a 2RV MPc. My Holton looks the nicest as It is gold laquered with silver keys, but it sounds terrible. A very dull tone. The Olds is downright ugly. Its silver looking but won't shine, sounds fair, and is never in tune. I use the Elkhart for jazz, but my wood horn for concert.
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Author: Mike Irish
Date: 2000-05-30 04:29
I have a Regents, but it is unplayable at present....it needs a few parts.... I have been unable to obtain another for parts, and actually have not been able to even locate one that any one would give up....I would like to restore it, but at what cost...
some people are getting in to the Era stuff... playing theold horns in groups ....I do not know of any in my local, but have heard that there are some thru out the us....
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-30 05:37
Have two metal horns that I restored, both Albert systems, and both are okay instruments. That is; okay, not great. One is a Victory, the other is a no-name five piece. They're no more difficult to work on than other horns, in my estimation, and are a little more durable than wood or plastic(as stated above).
Well made metal clarinets are not common. I'm not surprised by the price for that full Boehm on eBay, though it's out of my price range. I don't know about the quality of that Selmer but Conn double walled ones are considered very good instruments. The only drawback is that many Conn double walls are high pitched instruments.
Even at that, collectors love 'em.
At what price? Guess it all depends on how much a collector is willing to pay.
ron b.
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Author: M. Brand
Date: 2000-05-30 06:25
Metal Clarinets! I'm just curious to hear from knowledgable clarinetists what they think about these oddities? One sold today on e-Bay for $1,750.00. Yep, no mistake on the decimal. Some folks want them REAL BAD!!
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Fred,
I own one of these pro-model metal Selmers. Not quite a full Boehm, but it does have an articulated C#/G#. My metal Selmer plays beautiful. It has a nice tone, decent intonation, and is not stuffy like other metal clarinets. IMHO it plays as nice as a wooden pro model. Also, these pro-model Selmers can blend well with modern wood clarinets playing in a concert band setting.
The price for the one on eBay was a bit high, but not unreasonable for one in this condition and this rare. The last two I have seen on eBay sold for over $1,000. The last one being a gold-plated model. I believe the two high bidders probably got swept up in a bidding war.
Two other notable pro-model metals are the Bettoney Silva-Bet and the White Silver King. Both of these also play very well. I'm particularly fond of the Silver King which has a nice jazz tone to it.
More information is available by searching the phorum and/or archives for metal clarinet.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-05-30 11:27
The pro metal ones, particularly full Boehm instead of standard Boehm are extremely scarce and thus go for very high prices. If they had been made in the same numbers as pro wood ones, they wouldn't go quite so high.
Albert system metals, especially Low Pitch, are also somewhat rare so these will go a bit higher than the typical metal instrument. Still these do seem to stay under the $200 mark from what I have seen.
On the other hand, the student grade Boehm system instruments were as common as dirt. I think they must have made them by the ton. These are worth practically zilch (generally $25 to $75 depending on the condition) except for the fun value. Some of these were not too bad but others had horrid, uncontrollable intonation problems (Italian ones seem especially bad). Since tone quality is highly dependent on mouthpiece/reed setup and player, you have some flexibility here.
They use the same pads and springs as standard clarinets. So long as you have no missing or broken keys, they can be (relatively) easily restored and worked on.
I own two just for the fun of it. The Baronet (Italian made) is terribly poor but the Noblet is rather nice.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-05-30 23:10
Another 5-piece Selmer went on the block today (5/30). I'd love to have it, but I'd miss my wife an awful lot.
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Author: James
Date: 2000-05-31 14:57
We used metal clarinets in college to learn how to put in pads and springs. We bought them for $5.00 (in the about 1970)each from our clarinet teacher who rounded them up at pawn shops in Houston. Then he made us play them in the marching band as an excercise in tuning, assuring the band director that we were good enough to play them in tune with a good sound. If we did not, he said the band director could chew us out any way he saw fit. It was definitely a challenge for us to play these clunkers decently. Returning to our Buffets and Selmers was like going from driving a beat up Pinto to a new Mercedes. My two metal clarinets make nice candle holders on each side of the fireplace.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2000-06-01 01:43
i also love the metal clarinets. the nice thing about the latest price is that I don't look so crazy for spending $500 on a "regular" Selmer. I think the next one will go for under a thousand, maybe under $600, but you never know.
Many of the student models do play as well a modern Bundy. I have an American Gloritone that does and a Revere that does not. If you are looking for an student metal, look for an American made horn. I don't have a lot of experience but suspect that an American knight, American Standard, American Gloritone, Gladiator or Holton Collegiate, Bettoney 3-star or Cadet, Pedler Premier, Cavalier, or Elkhart would stand a chance and could be had for under $75. Sometimes a Noblet goes for under $75, as well.
So far I haven't met one I couldn't repair, but several have a single pivot screw I could not for nothing get out. This is probably comparable to vintage wood and plastic. A pro can do more to improve intonation on a wood or plastic horn because they can work on the tone holes. How much time will a pro spend on your bundy?
I am going to guess that the Conn mentioned above with the adj barrel was made in the 1930s. I have restored two and the are fine instruments. They have narrow bores and the prettiest keys of any of my clarinets. The keys are very close and would be easy for someone with small hands. The narrow bore means not so good for jazz but better for band and classical. Not my favorite, but very very worth fixing. That one will play way better than a bundy.
I don't know the Selmer ever made a double walled solid silver one. (I don't know that they didn't) The Conn double wall was plated over brass as was the Trebert. The Haynes was supposed to be solid. I have not seen anything contemporary stating as much, however.
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Author: John Dean
Date: 2000-06-02 22:16
I have a Silver King which plays great but tarnishes easily and gives an unpleasant metallic taste. However the altissimo is strong and overall it has a penetrating sound ideal for competing against the brass section! Lester Young made full use of one.
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Author: Doc
Date: 2000-06-03 22:22
yup, Lester young played a Silver King, H.N White exclusivly. That is until it got stolen. After that day he never played clarinet (or at least recorded) again. I wonder out of curiosity if anyone would know what his setup was? I mean it was good enough for him right?
Dave
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