 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris22311
Date: 2006-09-24 18:02
Yesterday after teaching, I realized that one of my students has a clarinet whose upper joint was obviously leaking. I really don't think he will go out of his way to get it repaired. Where can I buy pads? Any articles on replacing pads?
Chris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-24 18:26
It's not a job for anyone with no prior experience to take on lightly unless you know not only how to seat pads, but also how regulate the clarinet as well.
But most larger woodwind repair specialists will carry the correct sets of pads for all makes and models of clarinets for anyone to buy, as well as the various adhesives.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2006-09-24 20:13
google J.L.Smith woodwind repair
Freelance woodwind performer
Post Edited (2006-09-25 13:44)
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-09-24 21:04
all you really need is a
candle (not an oil candle)
new pad
shelack
screwdriver
and a needle
and maybe a pad feeler (a piece of paper that goes between the bore and the pad to test where the pad doesn't quite seal properly)
step 1: remove key or leave key on and proceed to step two
step 2: light candle
step 3: hold the clarinet key at an angle so the key is not directly over the flame but it is clearly getting hot.
step 4: remove pad once the key feels hot. do this quickly as the shelack will cool and harden fast.
step 5: insert new shellac on pad just a small bit
step 6: poke the pad with a needle so that the pad has room to expand (the sealing around the pad is like a bubble. pop it so the pad won't bulge)
step 7: place pad in, and reheat pad cup.
step 8: use needle to sit the pad.
step 9: use pad feeler or a piece of wax paper to see if you have any leaks.
step 10: reheat key until pad seals
step 11: repeat step 8-10 until the pad doesn't leak anymore.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-09-24 22:06
Playing a concert today and couldn't play C or B natural. The chalameau notes of E and F were OK, but there was no time to test the problem, and I'm not adept at simple repairs. Found out later that the C pad key was not seating properly. I must learn how to repair on the fly and also get the equipment and tools to do so.
Recommendations?
Post Edited (2006-09-24 22:08)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-09-25 00:48
For a temporary repair:
Wrap a small piece of plastic film around the pad and its cup. Twist the plastic tight to hold it in place --You may be able to melt the twisted plastic wrap with the end of a lighted cigarette --or hold a match close to it.
A US product is Saran Wrap.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-09-25 12:26
Some of the Valentino pads are self-adhesive...
Pop out the old, dry pad and check the size against the "teacher's kit".
That pad should fill the cup.
Peel off the backing and stick the pad into the cup (if you're careful, it can be done with tweezers and a steady hand).
The Valentino pads are pretty forgiving, but a trip to the shop is recommended.
***
Personally, I can't be bothered with students that show such disregard.
Too many want out of the rigors of practice time, and passively resist by letting the instrument fail into disrepair. You're not helping them by helping...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-09-25 13:08
On some keys of some brands, pads are very easy to change.
However some are quite challenging, and really do need considerable experience in order to do successfully. For these, the combination of parameters are critical. They include pad diameter, felt thickness, card thickness, quantity of glue, and installation technique.
This is most common where key cup arms are not quite the right length for the key cup to be concentric with the tone hole, or where the geometry is extra demanding, such as is often the case for C#/G#, or where venting issues come to play, such as a deeply set F# key's tone hole.
Other problems emerge when the tone hole diameter is little less than that of the key cup, eg C#/G# on articulated G# keys.
Etc, etc, etc.
IMHO the 11-step recipe given above is rather simplistic, for the above reasons, and also does not include the issues involving keys that are linked to others.
I believe that for most people carrying it out, the result is likely to be a gluey mess, stuffy notes, leaks, or unreliability. I dealt with a typical example a few hours ago. It costs more for a technician to correct this sort of thing than it does to do it right in the first place.
In spite of that caution, I have no objections to people trying to do their own work. That is how I started as a technician.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-25 14:23
I was up at Salvi's (harps) showroom in London where it was said a harp player's dad decided to 'service' his daughter's harp as the technician wasn't able to come to them on a certain day (though was on the following day!) - he refelted the pedals and put too much felt on which caused them to bind in the pedal slots, and this caused more tension in the mechanism causing a linkage inside the mechanism to break, and to put it right ended up setting them back around £1500 by Salvi (as the lot had to come apart - a general service would have been around £200) - so a cheap, quick fix can end up costing a lot more if it all goes wrong.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-09-25 16:24
The above cautions make sense to me because of the fact you don't appear to have prior experience changing pads and because it's not your own horn. Learn how on your own horn....or a backup one....after getting pads from Ferrees located in Battle Creek,Mich...or some other supplier in your area.
Bob Draznik
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-09-25 21:39
What repairs do you think a novice should try? When you consider the price of taking your clarinet into a shop, maybe there are a few minor repairs that could be handled. Pads? corks? Springs?
Thanks, appreciate your help, and anyone who has success repairing their own clarinet, please respond.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-09-25 22:04
For changing pads, every location has its unique potential problems.
Possibly the best pad for a beginner to practise on is the alt Eb/Bb.
It presents the challenge of appropriate pad and glue thickness, and is unrelated to other keys, while at the same time, if it IS botched up, it is easy to clamp shut with a rubber band, or tape over the tone hole, or leave a cork in the tone hole, etc, to keep the instrument playable.
Edit: Although this key presents perhaps the fewest complications with respect to the pad itself, and linkages, it can have one of the most difficult to remove pivot rods...
1. A longer screw driver is usually far more appropriate than short one.
2. Often, the C#/G# key (hence the A/D key also) needs to be removed before the pivot rod can be extracted.
3. Especially if the slotted end is uppermost, then smooth-jaw pliers may be a necessity for removing the rod.
So I reiterate, "every location has its unique potential problems. "
Post Edited (2006-09-27 22:38)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-09-26 19:50
"What repairs do you think a novice should try?"
I can only offer my own opinions based on my experience. You can attempt any repair you want to on a horn that you don't value much, ideally, a horn you don't rely on. I don't think a novice should attempt any repair on a horn he doesn't own. And then there are novices who were/are tool and die makers and novices who can't even tie their own shoes so it somewhat depends on your prior experience working with your hands on mechanisms.
First of all you need to own the right screw drivers. Bugger up a screw slot and it could be a costly repair. Buy a junker horn and try to get it to play is the best I can offer.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-26 21:22
Find a fairly good reputable old plastic clarinet to experiment on, such as a Vito/Normandy, Bundy/Buescher/B&H "78", Yamaha YCL-24/26II, B&H Regent/1-10, Evette/Buffet B12, Artley/Armstrong etc. as these are better made than the current cheapo placcy clarinets winging their way in from China that aren't worth doing anything to, apart from ignoring.
Since most clarinets will have 17 keys and 6 rings, the order in which they are assembled/disassembled is pretty much the same - some have exceptions (such as some Conn clarinets where the top joint ring keys come off BEFORE the trill keys), but this is rarely the case in plastic student clarinets.
And when you replace key corks, don't put thick corks on and cut or sand them into funny shapes to get the correct venting, but do have uniform thickness corks on the undersides of keys but of the correct thickness for the venting - it looks better than a thick tapering cork. And use softer materials such as thin felt for keys that are open standing against the body (bottom joint rings, thumb ring, low E/B key, LH F/C lever) so they don't go 'clunk' when released.
Suggested ventings (measuring the pad opening at the front of the pad - the point furthest away from the hinge):
Top joint:
Speaker key - 2-3mm max - experiment with this one.
Trills, Throat A, G# keys - 2mm
Ring keys, side F#, Eb/Bb and 'sliver' key and C#/G# key - 2.5-3mm max.
Bottom Joint:
Rings and B/F# 'sliver' key - 2.5-3mm max.
Low E, F and Ab - 3-3.5mm max. (the F# key venting is governed by the F venting and also by the low E key venting, and the venting on the bottom joint rings will determine the venting on the top joint 2nd finger ring key)
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-09-27 00:48
Thanks Gordon, BobD, and Chris P for the practical and (Chris) detailed information on how to begin. I'd never trust myself with my vintage clarinet, and I am on the lookout for one such as you describe to work on. Your posts describes how difficult it is to do an expert job on repairs.
Again, thanks for your helpful responses.
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2006-09-27 02:24
today i discovered some pads that had indeed, repaired themselves. about 3 months ago i repadded a Noblet 40. it was my 1st attempt at repadding.
things went quite well on the top joint, but the 2 largest pads on the bottom joint just didn't want to seal properly AND in unison. i can't remember how many times i reheated and "adjusted" them but after a few days decided that the middle of winter was not the right time to frustrate myself further.
and now having just successfully repadded a Selmer 55 i thought - today might be a good time to relook at the Noblet. i got it out, put it together and checked to see what it wasn't doing properly. amazing - there wasn't anything it wasn't doing properly - it had repaired itself!
i now know what to do when i can't think of what else to do!
BTW - this approach may not be appropriate when working on other people's clarinets.
steadfastness stands higher than any success
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-27 09:28
Never be afraid to bend anything - but always be careful when bending things.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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