 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-09-20 17:13
Pretty much what the topic is. Feel free to shed some light. what are the pros and cons with silver clarinets? wouldn't it look better to play a silver clarinet versus a wood clarinet? considering how most clarinets are black etc...
anyone tried one and liked it?
i know they don't really compare to the quality in wood clarinets as wood resonates and creates a darker sound.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-09-20 17:19
EXcept for a few metals, most, IMHO, would be for a combination of fun and show-off. Jim Lande, please respond ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-09-20 18:11
I have a chromed (does that count too?) Rauber/Selmer and it doesn't sound very different than any other clarinet I have.
(I'd fail miserably in a double blind test anyway, for what it's worth)
Metal clarinets are quite unlikely to crack, however.
--
Ben
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-09-20 22:31
Is this for real? Can't tell the difference in sound?!. BTW he means the color "silver" not the metal.
Unless somehow someone has "silverplated" a wooden clarinet.
I started clarinet on my grandfathers old metal one and it was fine. You can't compare wood with metal and definetly shouldn't even begin to think to get a metal one because it looks "cooler". They last a long time, durable and thats about it. The bore and general design was so different, when i first tried playing on my Buffet i couldn't make a sound (5th grade).
Sound between metal and wood are VERY different.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-09-20 22:36
Hmm... come try my Selmer Paris silver clarinet. I think you'd be surprised at the quality of the sound and intonation. That said, I do usually end up playing my Leblanc Paris because it is always on the stand in my practice room.
BTW I am an amateur or hobbiest on clarinet having started learning it over a year ago. So you can probably discount my comments by at least 50%, right. ;o)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Mags1957
Date: 2006-09-21 11:36
I have an old Silver King clarinet that is surprisingly nice. The intonation is a bit funky in the upper register, but it has a pretty darn good sound by any standards. I use it exclusively for jazz playing, and use my other clarinet (Yamaha CS custom) for "more serious" playing (whatever that means).
Do a bit of research, and you'll find there are a couple of brands that stand out - the King, the Selmer, and the Haynes (yes, Haynes - the flute maker). You have to be specific about the year and model number, but there are good ones out there - many jazz players swear by them - they do have a certain bright quality that tends to cut through in jazz. I don't know of anyone who plays a silver clarinet in an orchestra or for chamber music.
And Kev182, you can come listen to my silver King blindfolded, too. Let me play 3 or 4 wooden "intermediate" clarinets along with the King. I bet you'd be surprised at how hard the silver clarinet is to pick out. I was shocked when I first played it. In a pinch, I'd much rather play that horn in an orchestra than a Noblet or a horn of that quality (no flames from Noblet fans, please).
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-09-21 15:15
I heard a rumour that there are such things as double-wall metal clarinets, and that they're really quite good. Any substantiation?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-09-21 15:28
Yes, there is such a thing as a double-walled metal clarinet. Several manufacturers made them. I own one (silver plated, with gold wash on the keys), a C. G. Conn from 1895 or 1896. (By the way, some people think metal clarinets only date from the 1920s and later. Not so.) My Conn is an intermediate advanced Albert / early Boehm type, with only 2 keys for pinkie fingers on each hand. I can't find any HP or LP pitch designation. Jim Lande tells me this is the "Wonder" model. It has the wrap-around octave key and articulated low E/B.
Unfortunately, my old Conn is unplayable, in "as found at the flea market" condition, missing two keys. I wish I could try it out, though I believe it's not considered one of the better models. The double wall makes the instrument feel more comfortable in the hands for someone accustomed to the thickness of a wooden clarinet. However, I can see that the double wall would make some types of repair work much more difficult than on a single-walled metal clarinet.
I own several other metal clarinets, ranging in quality from excellent to crummy. My sense of things is that fine metal clarinets are scarcer than excellent wooden clarinets, because so many metal ones were made as inexpensive and "indestructible" (they're not!) beginner instruments. The best of my better ones is the first one I bought, a silver-plated H. Bettoney "Silva-Bet" from the 1930s.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-09-21 21:41
The better ones are. The best ones are as good as the very best wood clarinets. I've played some of Jim Lande's outstanding metal clarinets, and they felt and sounded wonderful. My own silver-plated Penzel-Mueller "Artist Model" is not one of the best, but is good enough for any playing up to and including semi-pro level.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-09-21 21:47
My own experience with metal clarinets (I have 4 of them, restored) is that all of mine play at bit on the high side.
Perhaps they were (like the E11) pitched at 442 for the student market? ...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-09-21 22:12
Many of the ones I've played also seemed to be pitched a bit high, too, GBK -- but on most of those I was able to counteract that with a low-pitched mouthpiece (e.g. Pomarico crystal).
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-09-22 02:46
cool so metal clarinets are just for fun. i like the idea of using one for jazz. i guess i'll have to find one and test it myself. oh well. some day. thanks for the feedback. i'll definitely look into getting one.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-09-22 04:12
Metal clarinets are not 'just for fun', actually. I play a metal Kohlert bass clarinet in orchestras, concert bands and shows (sometimes for money, so I guess I can say I use it 'semi-professionally'), and it sounds even better than the wood Kohlert it replaced. Yeah, cool.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-22 06:27
"i know they don't really compare to the quality in wood clarinets as wood resonates and creates a darker sound."
This is not true.
"wouldn't it look better to play a silver clarinet versus a wood clarinet? considering how most clarinets are black etc..."
I persoanlly really like the combination of black body and metal keys, epsecially comparing with all metal instruments (for example saxophones). It has more contrast. The look of same body and keys colour is just more boring imho.
Post Edited (2006-09-22 06:32)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-09-22 12:18
>>Metal clarinets are not 'just for fun', actually. >>
Yup. I've heard Jim Lande play jazz and blues on his metal clarinets. He's a good musician and not a faddist. I won't presume to speak for him, since he speaks so well for himself, but I can't imagine him playing junkers just because they look cool. They do look cool, but more importantly, his pro-quality metal clarinets give him a good sound. Also, he can play them outdoors, as I heard him do at a Washington, D. C. jazz festival, with no worries about our quirky weather wrecking his instruments.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-22 15:59
No matter the relative quality of the instrument, you're unlikely to see a "good" metal clarinet for the very simple reason that no one is making them any longer. No supply equals no new horns to play, and that pulls the whole "Do I want to spend the money to refurbish this old thing?" factor into the equation.
I've played metal horns in the past (back in the early 1970's, for the most part), and the upend ones that I've used (Selmers) were fine clarinets indeed. Bore size and tone hole placement have many times more effect on tone than does the body of the instrument, and those old Selmers could stand up well with the best of the wood instruments available.
But, that was forty years ago, when the horns in question had not been made for sixty years or so prior to that. As it was then, I was unable to find a quality metal clarinet at that point largely because the limited stock was already being held close to the vest. Ya can't have one if ya can't buy it. What was (when I was young and gay) a oddity has now turned into an antique (as in true antique, 100 years or older) item.
Following the advent of the auction service, it's been a bit easier to chase down metal horns. However, virtually all of them listed are of the "mass market" variety rather than the "artist level" ones that it would be desirable to have.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-09-22 17:09
"...you're unlikely to see a "good" metal clarinet for the very simple reason that no one is making them any longer."
Orsi is currently producing a professional-level metal clarinet.
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-22 18:19
I would imagine that Orsi's efforts are unlikely to get much attention outside of their normal sphere. Having said that, it's nice to know that someone else besides Leblanc has continued producing metal instruments.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-09-22 19:23
holy smokes look at this selmer silver clarinet.....
Picture
I went to the link above, and god this clarinet looks unbfreakenlievabley sexy. Check out the mouthpiece and ligature too. if that doesn't make your eyes dilate just for a second.... go back to a wood clarinet. =) thanks for the link.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-09-22 19:28
There is a scene in the movie "Wild Man Blues" where Woody Allen visits the Buffet factory and falls in love with a metal Albert system clarinet in their "museum". No amount of coaxing and whining on his part is sufficient to persuade the Buffet people to sell it to him, though!
Sort of reinforces the old "ugly American" stereotype -- to wit: all European culture is for sale to a foreigner with deep enough pockets. I wonder if he would have tried to pull the same act at the Louvre? And I used to like him!
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-09-22 21:09
Thanks C2thew, it plays well too. I really like the tuning mechanism too.
I am still looking for the original metal mouthpiece that came with it which you see on eBay every once in a while. Still, it kinda freaks the clarinet section out when a primarily sax player turns up with the instrument. I also have a silver Orsi curved bell for it that really looks wild. ;o)
http://groups.msn.com/GandalfesSaxCorner/selmerparismetalclarinet30.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=279
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2006-09-22 21:11)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-23 03:00
A horn like the one in the picture is one you can only dream of encountering any longer. It's been carefully restored if it's a typical one, or a virtual miracle if it has not.
Even the top end Selmer that I played on was smelly and tarnished. Put a silver horn away for twenty years and stuff happens. But, it still sounded pretty good.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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