 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-09-22 02:51
Ok for the most part, there are always notes that are too sharp or too flat on your clarinet. well.... except for the perfect instruments, but how exactly do you go about filling in the clarinet key holes? i've seen an article about how it's done, but where is the most common hole or holes that need to be worked on? just trying to find out what keys are consistently out of whack.
someone should start a poll.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-09-22 03:14
C2thew wrote:
> except for the perfect instruments,
There are no perfect instruments. Some, obviously, are better than others.
Rather, there are players who learn how to listen to EVERY NOTE and adjust to all that is going on around them.
Then, there is everyone else.
David Hattner once said it best:
"...Clarinets don't play in tune, great musicians who play the clarinet play in tune.
Anyone who thinks there is any such thing as "set it and forget it" in terms of clarinet equipment and playing in tune have no idea what it means to play in tune.
No one "plays in tune" just like that. Anyone who is in tune all the time is working hard at it every second he or she is playing.
If you aren't concentrating on intonation DURING EVERY NOTE YOU PLAY, I'll bet big money you play out of tune a lot of the time. Probably way way out of tune..."
...GBK
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-09-22 05:44
"but where is the most common hole or holes that need to be worked on?"
That depends on the player, clarinet, mouthpiece and even reed. To do this on your clarinet, and to find if your clarinet even needs it, then the person doing need to be someone who knows what they are doing, and have them do it with you right there playing on your setup.
The other option is just to experiment yourself and hope for the best, if you don't mind messing with your clarinet. You might even get some good results.
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2006-09-22 09:44
One I recently had adjusted was the low B natural xxx|oxo which consistently played sharp on my Malerne plateau Bb. My tech filled the right first finger tone hole (Bb). - just right now!
Malcolm
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-22 10:23
I always block off the cross Eb tonehole on the top joint on all my clarinets as I never use that key, and to me it's an unnecessary extra tonehole that can be omitted.
And it seems I'm in good company as Artie Shaw's 'Gramercy 5' Buffet had this key taken off and the hole filled.
But for tuning purposes I haven't drilled or filled any toneholes, most notes on my Series 9 set aren't seriously out of tune, though there are some that could do with work.
You should see what Highland pipers do - they use insulating tape stuck around the chanter to 'fill' the toneholes, but still end up being almost a quarter tone sharp. If you think two oboes playing in unison is bad, try playing in unison with a piper!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-09-22 10:28
I have only played with this a bit, but you need to be certain that the hole you're working doesn't LOWER (to the point of hideously flat) the twelfth). And keep in mind you can only lower pitch by adding, and the adding is done at the TOP half of the hole.
I have used Duck Tape in the hole to lower pitch on the R-hand Ab/Eb lever. Both were affected and both just lowered enough not to be annoying. And the best part is that the Duck Tape is removable and ....... it's still in there!
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-22 10:47
This is the problem with the clarinet, as altering a tonehole can have serious effects on other notes that utilise the affected tonehole, and indeed the flat 12ths.
At least filling toneholes is reversable if it has adverse effects elsewhere, whereas opening them up is more of a headache to deal with if it doesn't work, and then the hole needs to be filled back in again.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-09-22 12:07
>>Someone should invent a sliding tube to correct those pitches similar to the trumpet.>>
If you mean a tube that's adjusted for the instrument during setup, there already is such a thing: the sliding barrel. If you mean a tube we'd slide to correct individual notes while playing, which fingers could we spare to operate the gizmo? And why would it be easier to operate a sliding tube than it is to bend the pitch with the embouchure? ("Oops, that was supposed to be an A natural, not an A-flat...I slid the slide a little too far!")
Has anybody ever built a slide clarinet?--a clarinet with a slide mechanism, not so much like a trombone's but more like a telescope, with a double register key and no other keys?
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2006-09-22 12:08)
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2006-09-22 12:16
It'll be easier because you adjust before playing that note if you know the general tendency of that particular note.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-22 14:59
"Has anybody ever built a slide clarinet?--a clarinet with a slide mechanism, not so much like a trombone's but more like a telescope, with a double register key and no other keys?"
I've only seen 'Swanee Saxes' built on the slide principle - not a telescopic tube, but a window down the entire side of the bore (looking like the back of a Horngacher harp body!) that is effectively one large tonehole sealed by a metal slide that moves up and down the length of the bore to change the pitch. Don't think it had any 8ve keys though.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-09-22 17:05
I have used tape, epoxy, and cork to reduce the size of a tone hole. The first two are easy and removable. The cork is a little more tricky, but it's still not that bad.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-09-22 17:10
Try the following.
look around for a piece of thin wall tubing that will just snuggly fitt into a tone hole that, when open plays sharp. One source of such tubing is heat shrink tubing available at Radio Shack. For a couple tone holes on my R13, a soda straw will serve.
Cut off a short length of the tubing and put it in the tonehole. Play the offending note with and without the tubing insert. With luck, the tubing will perfect the intonation.
Record the amount of flattening that the insert provides. If you can measure or eyeball the tube's wall thickness, you'll now how many "cents per millimeter" of pitch lowering you will get when you shim the hole.
Now, you can cut a bit of electrical tape (the stretchy plastic stuff --available at hardware and automotive supply stores). Make its length eqyal the depth of the tone hole. Make its width just enough to run half way around the tone hole. Then, stick this little piece of tape on the UPPER wall of the tone hole.
This is a fiddley operation, calling for the use of fine-pointed tweezers to place the tape and a q-tip to burnish it into place. Add layers of tape until you get to the right thickness --that which gives you a satisfactory tuning in all of the registers. Be sure to check a couple of notes above the altered tone hole to see how your work has affected those notes.
The tape may stay in the hole for quite a while, and can easily be peeled out if you want to restore the horn to its original condition.
Now, if the tone hole plays flat, you have to "remove sawdust". Do not try this at home --because the process is not so easily reversed. You can undercut the hole (see the current discussion thread), or you can open it up on its upper edge. You'll need to keep the pad (or finger) sealing surface flat; and if it is covered by a pad, you'll have to replace that pad to seat on the new shape.
If you have made the cents-per-millimeter test on the flat tone hole, you will have a rough idea of how much that tone hole needs to be raised. If you're going to cut wood, sneak up on that value --and if it is more than a few cents (subjective value), send your horn to someone like David Spiegelthal for voicing.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2006-09-25 21:18
I sure agree with Chris P that the tonehole of the left-hand sliver key should be filled. To have three holes there across from each other makes it look pretty rough in there. It will flatten the pitch noticeably of the side trill key and the xoo/xoo alternate fingering, so use a needle file to correct it, and if you use a biz key to get the Bb/Eb then that hole in front should be more flat than original anyway. I wrote about this tonehole before, Ken
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Author: kenb
Date: 2006-09-25 21:47
You can find a good article on this topic at Clark Fobes website.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-09-25 21:55
A recorder maker I know at least used to use PVA glue or nail polish. These apparently are secure, but can ber easily pushed off at a later date if necessary.
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-09-25 23:35
i've also heard (from a maker of wooden flutes and "period instruments") of wax being used
Phillip Green (Principal in NZSO) had his buffet Festival clarinets fine tuned with Blue-tack (i think called "ticky tack" in the USA) and i believe Jack Brymer in his early years used plasticine, while Leon Russianoff suggested using cork grease as a temporary measure (before using more permanent materials).
with Blue-tack you have to be very careful when removing it, and try to get it out in one "glob" otherwise little bits of it adhere to the wood and are quite tricky to get out. Nail polish only works if you apply many small coatings of it- if you try to put too much on at once you risk getting this effect where the nail polish "sinks" to the bottom of the tone hole before it dries.
i suggest finding the Russianoff chapter where he discusses how to identify tuning issues and suggests which holes to fill in etc. If you read this you will have a pretty good idea of what is required and how to go about it.
donald
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-09-26 19:04
"Someone should invent a sliding tube to correct those pitches"
Something of the sort has been done for the recorder, but I've never seen one, and can't even find a picture on the web. Of course the objective is not so much to tune individual notes, as to correct for the large pitch variations that occur with volume.
A Google search on "slide recorder" and "Breukink" will find various references to it.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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