 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2006-09-18 13:22
Attachment: Leblanc LL special.pdf (1216k)
Attachment: Leblanc LL full+plateau.pdf (1463k)
Attachment: Leblanc LL UK prices 1974.pdf (707k)
I am attaching a scan of the special mechanisms for the Leblanc LL in the 1974 catalogue including the full Boehm and the plateau model. What is the fork Bb mechanism on 177 that requires the third finger ring-key for the left hand? On the articulated G# models (186, 187, 197, 199) what is the sliver key between the right 1st and 2nd ring-key for?
The UK price list from 1974 also indicates that the plateau(x) models were available in Bb, A, C and Eb. Has anyone seen any of these models or any of the “special” LL’s. I have the standard LL, and the Noblet 45 Bb (open) and 50 Bb (plateau). Great prices compared to today!
Malcolm
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-18 13:36
I have a fairly recent full Boehm LL Bb (around 10-15 years old), and still kicking myself for letting a matching pair of LL full Boehms go at an auction at Christie's - they sold for £800 back in about 1993 - £800 FOR THE PAIR OF 'EM!
The Eb or Bb can be played as xox|ooo with the forked Bb mechanism - the third ring closes the E vent but the 2nd ring is free to rise and opens the small vent between fingers 2 and 3 to bring the Eb or Bb up to pitch.
On the bottom joint with the articulated C#/G#, the 'sliver' key between RH 1 and 2 is the C-Db or G-Ab trill key, for RH finger 2.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-09-18 13:36)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-18 14:40
Leblanc horns have often gone for far less than their true value. I did not like the older Leblanc instruments back "in the day" when I acquired my soprano pair and bass, but since the LL series I have considered them adequate for my needs and preferences (even if I did not need to purchase them).
To the famous "Buffet Mafia", there should probably also be added a "Selmer Cuckoo Gang" (named after the St. Louis gang of that name, a Lebanese organization that has always played second fiddle to the "true" mob in those parts). Not as organized, but just as partisan in its own way. Leblanc (and nowadays Yamaha) have had an uphill battle penetrating the relatively united front presented by Buffet and Selmer folks.
My main objection to Leblanc clarinets have been (on the sopranos) the overall 'feel" of the instrument when held in my hands and (on the basses) the register mechanism and the fork Eb mechanism on the lower joint. I've not evaluated a new Leblanc bass in many years, so rumors that I've heard of the changes may well have made my bass objections moot. i know (from a number of casual trials of different soprano horns) that my objections there are past tense.
Leon Leblanc, to his credit, had always been willing to experiment. The long standing tradition of offering a complete line of instruments (included plateau and full Boehm horns) was part of this, and the continued improvements foisted on us by M. Hovenagel were further evidence of that trend.
Of course, now that we are up against another run of consolidation, much of what Leblanc has done over the years is in danger of being lost. It will be interesting to see what happens to their artist clarinet line, and to the metal contras ("alto" and "bass") once all has been shaken down.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Malcolm Martland
Date: 2006-09-18 15:40
Chris - thanks for the technical enlightenment. I think I am too set in my ways to learn extra keys now - but a full Boehm would be nice - they must be quite heavy - especially the A.
Terry - thanks for the politics.
Ken - thanks for the links - how did you find these instruments? - I cannot get there from the gleblanc.com site - are these actually instruments currently on-sale? John Packer in UK offers the Noblet 50s (plateau) for about UK£1000 - but the mechanism is not the same as the LL shown in the old catalogue - with (on the Noblet) the left hand 2nd and 3rd finger keys set on a separate offset column to the 1st finger key - and the fork Bb/Eb xoo|oox is missing. On the LL image the 1st, 2nd and 3rd left hand finger keys are all set on the same column - as in my Malerne plateau.
The price list is interesting listing full Boehm Bb, A, C and Eb - also they were marketing in UK out of the Bill Lewington address at that time. I bought my Noblet Artist from there about 1978. I was lucky enough to be given my 1974 LL about 10 years ago by my elderly father-in-law.
Malcolm
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-18 15:51
The L7 was the successor to the LL?
They were both concurrent models (the L7 had a different bore to the LL), and only the LL Bb and A was available with the different keywork options until they discontinued it fairly recently (within the last 10 years) and now only fit the LH Ab/Eb lever to the more expensive models.
I don't think any harmony clarinets (or those lower than the A basset) carried the LL logo. Only from the A basset up to the Ab sopranino and every size in between were in the LL family, though there was no room on the Ab to put the LL logo.
I lost my mid-'80s Leblanc catalogue ages ago (the one with all their clarinets from Ab sopranino to BBBb octocontrabass pictured on the cover on a red square, with the yellow tint so they all looked like they were gold plated), so that's a shame as it had all their clarinets in there (except the BBBb octocontrabass which was only seen on the front cover), and all the LL 'Special Mechanism' configurations. Bill Lewington was the UK distributor of Leblanc back then until Arbiter became the UK distributor in the early '90s.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-09-18 15:54)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-09-18 16:42
Chris -
Thanks for the information on the L 7.
The good picture of the entire Leblanc line that was on the catalog cover is, fortunately, available at http://kunst.no/lerstad/octos.html. My BBb paperclip contra is a little over three feet tall, and the EEEb instrument looks to be about a foot taller than that, with the BBBb a bit less than a foot taller still. The photo is stretched vertically (look at the very elongated soprano clarinets toward the front), so it's difficult to estimate measurements.
The grainy black and white photo just above the color one shows what appear to be two sax-shaped metal bass clarinets.
Ken Shaw
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-09-18 16:53
Chris P:
For what it's worth, my late 1950s Leblanc Basset Horn carries the LL logo on it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-18 17:02
One's a metal basset horn and the other's an alto clarinet - both to low C (in sax shape), and the metal bass is a compact paperclip affair - pretty nifty design! That'll sit nicely on your lap when playing - shame they weren't commercially available.
In the catalogue photo (the same one I had) the A looks like a 'Dynamic H' and the Bb an 'LX' as it's got the pearl inlay above the Leblanc logo.
The '70s Leblanc basset horn I've worked on just had the Leblanc lyre (or is it a kithara?) logo without the LL above it - though they should have left the LL logo on them.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-09-18 17:06)
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-18 21:09
Did any of the other modern makers ever go to the experimental lengths that the Leblanc firm did?
The "compact" bass mentioned above is news to me, but its existence doesn't surprise me one bit when talking Leblanc. That's what's going to be a shame about the demise of the firm; I can't see Conn/Selmer/Coca Cola/Alcoa (or whatever the full name of the new conglomerate is) as being willing to branch out in these directions.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-09-18 21:36
To me, the full Boehm LL is the ultimate Leblanc - it has the most radical design of nearly every clarinet on the market (and designed a long while back), and since Leblanc have 'normalised' their clarinets - for better or most likely for worse in my opinion - it seems they've lost their unique identity.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2006-09-19 03:07
I own a normal LL serial 19XXX and a full Boehm LL serial 19XXX. I play the normal LL daily and show the full Boehm to my friends as a curiosity...........
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Bruggie
Date: 2007-06-24 03:45
I am interested in finding a noblet model 50 plateau clarinet. These are no longer available iin the USA, I've been searching E-Bay for several months with no hits. Your post indicates that you have these available.
Frank Brugman
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2007-06-24 14:03
Bruggie wrote:
> Your post indicates
> that you have these available.
The post is from 2006 describing a 1974 catalog!
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