 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Scott S
Date: 2006-09-05 23:06
Hey All!
As a Bb soprano clarinet for over 38 years (and having enjoyed that and still planning to all my life!) I suddenly find myself IN a Wind Ensemble in the Twin Cities as a new bass clarinet player.
I auditioned last Thursday and they liked me well enough to invite me into the group......but as a bass clarinetist and not a soprano.
So!
I am in need of some recommendations regarding instrument brand, mouthpiece preferences, ligature and so on. I know that I will be experimenting to ultimately find my new "niche." But any early, first-hand wisdom would be appreciated. Also any suggestions about embouchere, articulation, you name it are welcome in this thread. I am MOST interested in equipment recommendations.
I will be starting out using our school's Yamaha student line model until I can afford a used intermediate or professional model.
Have at me! Spare nothing!
:-)Scott
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-09-05 23:37
Which band? (I'm in the Twin Cities too, but not in any wind ensembles...I play Balkan folk music)
The only recommendation I have is to play with the entry-angle of the mouthpiece as closely to soprano as you can get it! Tilting the bottom of the bass behind you, under your seat is the first thing to try, and if your bass' neck still doesn't oblige, you can buy a neck with a more vertical entry into your mouth.
I haven't played bass since 1989 (I think) and I had a tough time with intonation and voicing on it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-09-06 01:17
There are many disagreements all over this board about how you approach the bass clarinet.
Some recommend a more saxophone like embouchure.
Others sticking with their clarinet embouchure.
I agree completely with Katrina above, that placing the bell underneath you and tilting the horn away will create a more soprano like angle. This really helps!!
I use an end pin AND a neck strap.
I'm with the second group I alluded to. The bass clarinet (for me) is just a big clarinet. There is a wider bite, but otherwise the same.
One bit of specific advice, begin playing low held notes in the chalumeau and then press the register key. Allow yourself time to learn how to voice the notes properly.
Pitch tendencies, although somewhat the same, are not the same as a soprano.
Is it a low c bass?
Good luck!!
James Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-09-06 04:13
Try a Selmer C* mouthpiece--as many as you can find at your local music store--for starters. Walter Grabner--a sponser of this website--makes excellant custom mpcs that are not too expensive. I use his CXBS model, which is really a Selmer C* that he has redone (customized for optimum response and tone quality). Personally, I play a Buffet Prestege 1193-2 low C bass clarinet and I highly recommend them. However, before that, I played a Selmer Bundy Resonite bass clarinet which played with a rich "big" sound in the low register, but became a bit stuffy above G5. For that register, you need an instrument with a double octave mechanizm and they are usually the more pricey models, like mine. Many pros also recommend the Selmer 33 & 37 models, both low C instruments but they are expensive, if you can even find one to buy. For a beginner, the Bundy would be a good choice and you could probably find one for around $450.00. But sooner or later, if you are like me who enjoys play the bass clarinet, you will want to upgrade to the low C models or, at least, a low Eb semi-pro model with the double octave key. Semer and Buffet both make low Eb professional grade models that will enable you to play most of the literature your band may program, in tune and with good reponse in all registers. In any case, a good mouthpiece will make bass playing much more enjoyable--give Walter a call or try a stock Selmer C*.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Scott S
Date: 2006-09-06 11:13
Thank you all for your responses so far! I appreciate your insights!
Katrina - I will be playing with the Grand Symphonic Winds out of St. Paul. Our rehearsals are at the University of St. Thomas. What is your Balkan Folk Music group? Thanks for the suggestion of the tilt!
James - I appreciate your "seconding" Katrina's tilt suggestion. I will definitely do that. My clarinet for starters, is just a Bb bass clarinet. I have talked to a music dealer in the area who is going to help me locate a good used professional model! I hope he finds one soon! I can "live" with the notion of maintaining my clarinet embouchere, but just opening it up a bit more with the larger mouthpiece. Thanks!
William - Thanks for the suggestion of the Selmer C*mouthpiece. I had heard that they were good for alto saxes, but had no idea that they work well for bass clarinet as well. Have you heard much about the Hite? I had someone locally recommend that to me, too. Eventually I hope to find a quality bass clarinet as you suggest!
Thank you all for your input!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2006-09-06 11:54
I use a Fobes Basso Nova or a Selmer C* and get good results with both, paired with a Rovner dark ligature.
Most of my students use a C* ; its a good choice for students transitioning to bass.
A friend of mine bought a Buffet 1193? from Walter at the Oklahoma symposium - I sit directly in front of him in band, it sounds awesome.
I think he uses a Garret mouthpiece.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-09-06 13:08
Scott,
Welcome to the wonderful world of bass clarinet! For all of the good (and sometimes contradictory) advice given here, I still feel that you will do yourself a favor and save time and money by taking a few lessons with a professional bass clarinetist. Fred Hedling, retired Minnesota Orchestra bass clarinetist lives in St. Paul. I don't know who his successor is, but I'm sure either one of them can put you in the mainstream before you can make any egregious and ill-advised missteps!
Enjoy!
Larry Bocaner
Natinal Symphony Orchestra (retired)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Low_Reed
Date: 2006-09-06 13:15
I really recommend you check out the Yamaha YCL-221 student BC to low E-flat: a well-crafted, affordable student horn with GREAT sound (and an angled neck for a soprano-like approach to the mouthpiece).
The rest of my setup (after much experimentation):
Grabner CX_BB_90 mouthpiece (outstanding - and it's not just for jazz!)
Vandoren Optimum ligature
Alexander Superial Classique TENOR SAX reeds, strength 2.5 - 3
I also have a Grabner CX_BB mouthpiece that was my favorite until I bought the 90.
Write to me offline if you like - I'm in the Twin Cities, too.
-- Bruce
**Music is the river of the world!**
-- inspired by Tom Waits and a world full of music makers
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2006-09-06 15:02
I would HIGHLY recommend Clark Fobes bass clarinet mouthpieces. They are easy to control and make it a joy to play the bass. I find it produces a lovely refined tone, yet can project with a real dark rich tonal core. There are a variety of facings available.
Don't expect the same resistance in bass that you have in clarinet. Just relax and play, especially in the upper register. Spend some time getting the feel for it. It can be a lot of fun to play a different voice. It can make you hear things differently.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-09-06 15:39
My 2 cents to complement others' comments.
Roger Garrett makes a great bass mouthpiece from Zinner blanks. His and Walter Grabners are what I use.
Contact Dave Spiegelthal to see if he has any good bass for sale.
Make sure the peg mechanism is working perfectly, you don't want the peg to slip and denting the bell on the floor, it's costly in repairs and embarrassing.
Martin Arnold has a scale book at good price with exercises for both low Eb and low C horns.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2006-09-06 15:41
I had a bass clarinet for some time, and now I really regret giving it up. I hope to aquire another one someday. I am originally from the twin cities, and I can definitely 2nd Mr. Bocaner's idea of studying with Fred Hedling (if he's still taking students. I had a few lessons with him years ago and he is a pleasure to study with.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-09-06 17:29
Welcome to B C playing, Scott . You have received MANY $'s worth of good advice from the above posts. Yes, have your Yammie checked for leaks/adjustments, they can ruin your efforts. While I'm a devotee of glass mps [with care !!], with quite open lays and soft reeds, you can see that playing success can be reached in many ways. An additional source of info/advice is the Yahoogroup, New Bass Clarinet, where many of us also exchange playing and equipment E-M's, re: our fav. inst ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-09-06 17:41
Lessons : yes,
if you can find someone who knows the bass. Maybe you don't really need it if you play 'only bass in a wind orchestra' (I know people never needing the altissimo 'high G5 max', and hardly ever playing 8th notes) , but if you truly want to explore it, then you'll need some guidance.
The big pipe, is a clarinet, but not a Bb !! There are tricks and traps, and you need to excercise definitely.
My setup (and quite normal here) :
Selmer E or F
B&G ligature
3 - 3,5 reeds (try the Java Tenor sax VD's)
(I play - well try to - Buffet RC 1193 downto C)
I have interesting studies by William E. Rhoads, Bill Reddie and for the 'real die hards' the Bach Cello Suites. Lots of concert music too : Hindemitih (Bassoon sonata), Martinu (Clarinet sonata) and some local guys.
Probably more than is ever needed in a wind band, but enough to make life interesting ;-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ray
Date: 2006-09-06 22:37
I second the Clark Fobes mouthpiece recommendation. I play on the Basso Nova, not too expensive with a great sound, fast articulation and good tuning.
You say you are going to use your soprano embouchure. Many (maybe most) players bite the reed with lower jaw pressure and that just won't work with the bass clarinet. You have to take a lot of mouthpiece in your mouth and reduce the pressure on the reed to get a full characteristic bass sound. The idea of getting a soprano angle on the mouthpiece helps a lot in getting your lower lip farther down the reed to allow more reed to vibrate.
Its going to take more air, too. You will have to relax your abdominal muscles and let your belly sag out to take in the great gulps of air you will need to sustain a long phrase.
I think it is easier to start with very soft (too soft) reeds in the beginning. As you get better breath control and play more forcefully, you can move to a little stronger reed. But when you start pinching the reed to get the upper clarion to speak you may have gone too hard.
Mr. Bocaner's advice (get a good bass clarinet-playing teacher) is the most valuable. I spent way too long figuring out the bass clarinet because I didn't have a teacher.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Scott S
Date: 2006-09-07 11:01
Such terrific feedback to my request for wisdom! I can't thank each of you enough for taking the time to respond to my post! This forum is terrific. It had been a few years since I had "surfed" to this web site. I am so glad that I did. And I am so thankful for your sharing of your experiences, knowledge, insights, and thoughts on the bass clarinet. You have provided me with a wealth of unique and valued perspectives.
If more post, that's great, too!
If this is it for now -- I am appreciative beyond words!
All my best to each of you in your playing and artistic endeavors!
Scott S
:-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: FrankM
Date: 2006-09-07 14:36
One of the things I really enjoyed about this post is the enthusiasm the original poster and all who responded have for the bass clarinet... Times have changed ! When I was in school ( eary 70s), if my director had asked me to switch to bass, I would have contemplated suicide ! I would have considered it a demotion of the highest order ! It wasn't until college and playing in pits over the years that I came to the appreciation I now have for the bass.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-09-07 15:33
I play Vandoren B40 with a Rovner ligature.
I miss bass... my soprano is in demand at the moment. Teaches you to blow, does bass.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: der_kluge
Date: 2006-09-07 21:08
Wayne Thompson from the Klarinet list directed me to this thread. (Thanks, Wayne!)
Turns out, I'm in a nearly identical situation as the OP, except replace Twin Cities with Kansas City, and you pretty much have it. Except, well, I haven't been playing for 38 years.
So, I'm really loving the advice presented here. It's going to help me not look like a fool when I show up for rehearsal and I can at least pretend to know what I'm doing.
Walter Grabner's page on the Bass has some great advice as well:
www.clarinetxpress.com/bassadvice.html
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Scott S
Date: 2006-09-08 03:46
OK, I just had my first rehearsal tonight with this new Wind Ensemble I am playing the bass clarinet in. And things went well! It turns out that this is a terrific group. All the members are serious about music, love to play, and are passionate about this group.
Many of us are indeed music teachers. But many are lawyers, flight control specialists, stay at home moms and dads, college students, and more. The sound was wonderful for a first rehearsal. This group has been in existence for about 18 years. I even met a man whom I used to live next door to in St. Louis Park!!! He is playing.....the contra bass clarinet. So we are next door neighbors once again!
I know I have a long way to go. And I am going to focus on all the wonderful feedback I've received on this thread! Truly!
It was a warm moment for me, when 25 minutes into rehearsal as I came to a lyrical soloistic moment in one of our pieces, the conductor said, "nice bass clarinet!"
It made my night.
Thank you all again! I will keep reading additional posts. But I will be reading and re-reading the posts above. What an awesome bulletin board this is!
I will let you know if the music dealer who is on the hunt for a professional used model bass clarinet finds me one. In the meantime, I will be practicing this Yamaha.
All my best to each of you!
Scott S
:-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ray
Date: 2006-09-08 13:40
In the Klarinet list, where this same discussion occurs, Walter Grabner took me to task for recommending the use of super soft reeds.
Mr. Grabner is correct. A super soft reed will restrict your dynamics and your range, just as he said.
Now let me tap dance a little. I meant to suggest the use of reeds that initially feel soft, since many soprano players use reeds which are a little too hard, striving for a more covered sound. I believe that a too hard reed is worse than a too soft reed on the bass. You will have to bite (depending on your mouthpiece) more or less to reach the upper clarion and altissimo. It will also encourage you to take only the tip of the mouthpiece in your mouth, in an effort to control the reed.
When I wrote "very soft" I didn't mean super soft, but I see that what I wrote can be read that way. Thanks to Mr. Grabner for pointing out bad advice.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2006-09-08 15:09
For the last couple of years, I have been using Legere bass clarinet reeds 3 1/4 and 3 1/2, with good result.
The other day, I mentioned to a fellow musician my desire to try tenor sax reeds with the bass clarinet and he gave me two Rico Platicover tenor sax reeds 2 1/2.
I didn't get a chance to try one until I had some time to kill before a concert. I liked it so much, I played the whole concert with it. I had to be careful not to overblow, but it played great. I think I will order a box of number 3s.
Mike Blinn
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gardini
Date: 2006-09-09 00:27
After much search I found a used Selmer 37 in perfect condition. It is a beautiful horn and I love most everything about it. I currently have a pro bass clarinet player staying at my house and he has a Buffet Bass. After trying both together, I un-happily have to admit that I do like the key work shape and finish better on the Buffet. I have very sweaty hands and the grooves on the Buffet keys really help keep your fingers in place. The good thing is that I like the tone of the Selmer a little better. In other words you won't go wrong with either clarinet and a good player can make beautiful music on either horn as well. I play on one of Walter Grabner's mouth pieces and like it much better that the Selmer C that I got with the clarinet. Good luck on your search, I hope that you are as lucky as I was.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pam H.
Date: 2006-09-09 20:19
Thanks for all the advice so far! Wow. I was just going to come here with the same situation.
I'm to begin playing the bass in our local Pops orchestra and am borrowing a horn to begin with but want to get my own mouthpiece setup. The last time I played bass was in High School - 30 years ago. I hope it comes back quickly! My first rehearsal with them is next Thursday. :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-09-10 13:24
"I currently have a pro bass clarinet player staying at my house..."
Make sure that you keep the liquor cabinet locked up...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-09-10 18:37
Terry--tsk, tsk on you!!! I'm certain you attempted humor, but as a non-drinking professional musician (and bass clarinetist as well) I resent the characterization you have suggested. I'll just steal your reeds............
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Scott S
Date: 2006-09-11 01:34
Pam H,
Wow! Not only similar circumstances, but the same rehearsal nights!
:-)Good Luck!
Scott S
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EuGeneSee
Date: 2006-09-11 12:13
I can echo Pam H on having not played bass clarinet since HS, but can go farther in not playing anything since early 1960's. Now beating bass drum in community band while taking clarinet lessons . . . both teacher and band director want me to get back to playing shape then play BC in the band. I really feel bad cuz I don't remember anything and don't feel I'm progressing very well. I need something, a sign of progress, to build my confidence.
Eu
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Scott S
Date: 2006-09-12 11:51
Again, as the original poster of this thread, I want to thank everyone for your input. The responses range in variety and suggestion. Yet clearly something has emerged to me from this thread: the bass clarinet indeed DOES have a place "in the choir". It is not a demotion, a slam, a rejection to play this instrument -- for those of us who are "transfers" from the soprano.
In fact, I am now more excited than ever to contribute to the Wind Ensemble for which I am a part while learning to play my bass clarinet with ever more finesse.
I may wish to return to this thread for more pedagogical questions as I have reached high enough levels to even articulate specific artistic issues.
Right now I am just trying to learn to make my high range as responsive as my low range. And this is going to take some time.
Thanks again for all of your feedback!
Happy Playing!
:-)
Scott S
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2006-09-14 11:32
An interesting discussion. Would the above advice also be applicable to the basset horn? I have a BC and a Pillinger mouth piece which is heavenly with the right reed, but I find it very difficult to find the right reed. Would it be better to use sax reeds -- even those VD jazz reeds suggsted abover? I play on VD 2.5 which are fine for 15-20 minutes but then seem to get soggy and dull. I find that if I play on harder reeds, the clarion register sounds slightly metallic. I used to have good success with Glotin reeds but these are getting hard to find.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
