 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rdscuba
Date: 2006-09-01 01:50
Greetings,
Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated...
My daughter of 11 years has just started 6th grade band. She is currently in possession of a new Jupiter JCL-631 that we are "renting to own”. There was no choice at the time of purchase as it was done at the speed of light at her school (along with 200 other parents). Now its time to reflect and learn a bit about clarinets… I would like to know if the JCL-631 is a good clarinet ($800.00 NIB) or if there are other options that I should consider. I want to provide my daughter with a clarinet that will allow her to learn to the best of her ability and not cause her problems or hamper her spirit.
Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-09-01 01:56
I am not sure about the quality of this clarinet, or of its specs, but I would recommend trying the buffet B12(The horn I played starting in 6th grade): http://www.wwbw.com/Product/Product.aspx?sku=70399
According to other people on this BBoard, it would also be recommended to look at the forte clarinet: http://www.forteclarinet.com/horns/horns.htm
Both of these have a better price tag than what you mentioned, but they have to be paid all at once.
EDIT: Also, it is just as helpful as having a good clarinet to have a good mouthpiece to learn on. If you would like to, you should take your daughter to a music store to try a few mouthpieces (Vandorens are good). This should run you about $60.00
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-09-01 01:58)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-09-01 04:09
I do not have a comment on the Yamaha YCL-250,
However...I have been pleased with the Buffet b-12 that some of my students own.
As a teacher of many middle and high school students, I look forward to seeing the Forte clarinet. (I haven't yet!)
I would also recommend Clark Fobes' Debut mouthpiece, or the Hite premiere. Both are very affordable starter mouthpieces under $40.
James Tobin
(I do have a student with a Jupiter plastic clarinet, and I honestly don't know if it is the same instrument model you have described. I'm not very impressed, but it is the only one I have come in contact with!)
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: rdscuba
Date: 2006-09-01 05:17
Well... unless someone on here changes my mind in the next few days I believe the Forte would be a good choice. I'll give this thread a few more days and see what everyone else says.
Thanks everyone.
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2006-09-01 05:19
For that amount of money, why not consider upgrading a little to a Buffet E-11. Many students play these and they're just terrific. Do be sure to try a few however as one "out of the box" is not always feasible.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-09-01 06:11
if you can find one, a buffet e-10 is the same as an e-11, but with a plastic bell, at a much lower price.
i start most beginners on e11's with a fobes debut or vandoren 5rv-lyre mouthpiece, and a rovner dark ligature. works well for most beginners.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: D
Date: 2006-09-01 07:39
Although it could cost you more in the long run, you could leave it a year or so and if your daughter is still enjoying the instrument and doing her practice, then organise a trip to a large store with lots of models for her to try and let her pick one herself in a certain price bracket. Then sell on the Jupiter or loose the rental depending on your current agreement. It might be that she prefers the Jupiter! The reasoning behind this suggestion is that a) it is a nice reward for her for hard work and shows you have faith in her abilities and judgement and b) after a little playing, she will be in a better position to tell what suits her. If you contact them well in advance and are prepared to go at a time when they are not expecting to be very busy many music stores will assist you well. The best way would be to have a selection of instruments, all of which you can afford presented to your daughter and she try them blind (ie she does not know what she is trying or the price). This is of course with the caveat that they are all good brands which you can find a tech to work on (some lesser known brands or known poor brands will be blacklisted by technicians).
If she does go to try instruments at any point, have her take her music and play what she normally plays. No better way to tell at this stage.
A friend of mine has done this (she is a fairly good intermediate player) and wound up with a Yamaha instrument which is not the best they do. one of the low end professional/high end intermediate instruments turned out to suit her best at this time. It is not necessarily the most expensive instrument that is better. It is what suits the player at that time in their playing.
Also, very importantly, never disregard the well adjusted second hand instrument. A second hand one will hold its value much better on resale, and if your daughter carries on playing she will need an upgrade eventually. If you can get a shop to include second hand instruments in a blind trial then do so. This is not in order to try and find a pro instrument at a knock down price, but to find a student or intermediate instrument at much less than you would ordinarily pay and which will resell for the same value as you pay out.
Whatever happens, as mentioned above, a good mouthpiece is always the best place to start. If you look on the Vandoren website there is a chart which explains about the relationship between reed strength and tip opening. Essentially the wider the tip opening, the softer the reed recommended to play on it. This is not just try of Vandoren mouthpieces! I suggest showing this to your daughter to help her understand that the harder reed does not mean a better player. This myth seems to perimiate schools and is very unfortunate. I think it probably starts where you have beginners starting on a 1 1/2 reed and the better players being on a 3. All this means is that the better players have strengthened their muscles properly and are playing on what fits their mouthpiece. I have one clarinet with a mouthpiece that likes a 3 1/2 or a 4 and another that prefers a 2/5 or a 3. You just have to go with the flow. Also, note that different brands of reed are not necessarily the same in strength at the same number. There are many charts on the internet which show the relationship.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. And don't loose sight of the fact that music exists outside schools. A friendly community workshop or orchestra that takes all ages, a relaxed and good private teacher etc, are all possibilities and don't need to cost the earth. You daughter maybe lucky and have a good music programme at school and not want to do anything else. But don't close your eyes to other possibilities.
Happy listening!
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-09-01 09:08
You say it costs $800.00 NIB.
I don't know what NIB means.
In England the 631 can be obtained from a highly reputable specialist retailer for £209. That is less than $400 US.
Other student clarinets (B12, YCL250) cost about £50 more and have a better reputation and better resale value.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2006-09-01 11:13
NIB = New In Box (As opposed to a refurbished instrument)
My recommendation would be the Arioso B-flat, Ridenour Tr-147 or Forte clarinet, each a well built, and solid instrument.
The Ridenour TR-147 is virtually identical to my (much more expensive) leBlanc Opus in playing character. The TR-147 and Arioso are made in Hard rubber much like the Jupiter or Buffet B-12.
For what it's worth, I would NOT spend more than $500 on a beginning player's instrument; too many young players abandon the instrument early.
Resale value of beginner's clarinets is VERY low.
Synonymous Botch
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Author: carrielj
Date: 2006-09-01 11:25
I have a Ridenour TR-147 and have not been disappointed with it. I also would put on the list of clarinets to think about the Selmer CL 600 Aristocrat and the Vito 7250. I have played the Selmer and like it as well as the 147.
Carrie
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Author: SolidRockMan
Date: 2006-09-01 11:31
I recommend you get in touch with Omar Henderson and buy a Forte clarinet. An excellent beginner's package (including quality mouthpiece) for well less than $800.....
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-09-01 13:09
There is a list on this BB of clarinets to avoid. Use the search function and it will pop right up.
You may want to start with a plastic instrument and a good quality, inexpensive mouthpiece, such as Hite Premier or Fobes Debut. It’s amazing how much innocent abuse a 5th-6th grader can heap on an instrument. This is also a good reason to buy a name brand student instrument, they can be easily fixed.
My daughter is also a clarinetist in 6th grade band. She is playing my old Selmer Signet, that both my sister and I played in high school band. This is a big advantage of getting a name brand instrument. It will last, and it can be overhauled with no problems. (That Selmer has been overhauled at least twice in its 35 odd years and plays very well.)
You have two options;
1. Buy a new, name brand instrument. This ought to be about the same price as the Jupiter. The Forte would be an excellent choice (and it’s less than $600), the Buffet E-11 is also good. Other posters have put up several suggestions.
2. Buy a high quality used instrument. You can pick up an excellent rebuilt clarinet for $4-600. For that, I’d suggest going to one of the first class techs on this BB. Be sure that you can return it if your daughter, or her teacher, doesn’t approve. For a second opinion, get a clarinet teacher. If the band teacher doesn’t play clarinet, their opinion may not be worth a lot.
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2006-09-01 16:30
Jupiter instruments have come a long way in terms of quality. We rent Jupiters at the music store that I work in. The brand used to be rather poor in terms of quality, but as I said have made huge strides in improvement. Such to the point that band directors in this area have accepted them in their band programs. I would not consider a Jupiter a CSO.
just my 2 cents.
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Author: rdscuba
Date: 2006-09-01 23:52
Thanks for all of the good advice. In reference to the replies above, it looks like the FORTE has the strongest support. My wife and I are leaning toward getting it at the present time.
It turns out our neighbor has an unknown clarinet for sale. They are out of town for the next 3 days but we are going to take a look at it before we buy anything online. Can anyone advise what to check when looking at a used clarinet? I understand that it was used for a year or so and has remained unused in its case for 4 or 5 years.
Thanks again!!
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-09-02 02:58
>>It turns out our neighbor has an unknown clarinet for sale. They are out of town for the next 3 days but we are going to take a look at it before we buy anything online.<<
I'm sure others will chime in here, but I'd just suggest that you be very careful about this neighbor's clarinet. It is possible that it's quite good, but more likely, it is a student clarinet of one sort or another, and probably not the equal of the Forte you are (wisely) considering.
On the other hand, who knows? It could be a Buffet.
The advice that is often given on this board in regard to used clarinets is to "stick with the majors" -- which would be Buffet, LeBlanc, Selmer, and Yamaha.
Years and years ago, my parents borrowed a clarinet for me from a neighbor, to replace the metal Army-surplus gem with which I had started. The borrowed clarinet was wood, and it had a hairline crack halfway down the back of the top joint from the register key. But it played beautifully.
I enjoyed using it for a whole year. Even made first chair in an all-county band with it. At that point, my parents decided that I should have a clarinet all my own. Knowing next to nothing about instruments, they promptly declined the opportunity to buy the loaner -- which I now know was a Selmer professional instrument -- and instead bought me a new no-name entry-level horrendoplasty from the local department store. Ow! Ow! Ow!
So, newer is not always better. If I were starting out today, I'd salivate over the Forte, though.
Susan
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Author: rdscuba
Date: 2006-09-02 03:14
Susan,
Thanks for the tips... You can count on me posting what the neighbor has to sell just as soon as I find out. Unless it is a top line instrument in great condition I will not be interested. Time will tell.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-09-02 14:47
You might want to call your local music store to find out what a repad job would run. Good information to know as you evaluate older instruments.
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Author: dat99
Date: 2006-09-03 03:56
I have a buffet b12 clarinet which I like. I started to take lessons 6 months ago after a 30 year absense. It is a good clarinet, but be sure and also buy a fobes debut mouthpiece and a rovner dark ligature .
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2006-09-03 04:09
rdscuba,
Well, you certainly have received a lot of recommendations and advice. May I add a few comments and opinions of my own? The Arioso and TR-147 Bb clarinets are made out of hard rubber. According to the Jupiter website, the Jupiter 631 is made out of ABS plastic. In my honest opinion, there is a considerable weight difference between hard rubber and ABS plastic clarinets. Hard rubber clarinets are heavier. I know because I own a hard rubber Conn 16 and I can sense the weight difference.
Concerning the Buffet B12, if I remember correctly, I believe Gordon (NZ) has given extensive input on how the quality of the new Buffet B12 has deteriorated greatly.
Concerning the Yamaha 250, I have tested this clarinet and found it to be an instrument of high quality construction. However, it comes with Valentino synthetic pads which I would not recommend. I have repadded several of my own clarinets with these pads and cannot recommend them at all, especially for the larger pads at the bottom of the instrument. On the larger holes, I have found them to be extremely difficult to align so that they would seal well without requiring extra pressure.
So, in my opinion, the best recommendation I can give you is to go with the Forte. It's a lightweight ABS plastic instrument and has a polycylindrical upper section like many professional clarinets have.
If you do a "search" on Forte, I think you will find many favorable comments on them.
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