 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Band_Halt
Date: 2006-08-26 23:41
I recently got a new Vandoren B45 mouthpiece for marching band (i have another one for concert).
I've had a Vandoren mouthpeice before but it wasn't a B45. Some are saying that B45s make your tone fuzzy and some are saying that B45s are okay. Can anyone with expeiernece with a B45 tell me what it's like.
Will my tone be so bad that it might hold me back from getting into district/region/state?
I saw on other threads that the others asked about the reed strength. I use size 4......not always but mostly.
-B H-
Post Edited (2006-08-30 02:40)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-08-27 00:00
right above your isp name, click 'search'
i get over 1900 hits on 'B45'
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-08-27 02:32
and since you have one, try it
try different reeds- different brands and strengths on it
if you get a decent tone and response, great!
if not, keep searching for another mouthpiece
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2006-08-27 02:47
Band_Halt-
first of all--wow--Vandoren 4 and 4 1/2 are hard reeds on almost any Vandoren mouthpiece. to me it seems like a lot of people consider the b45 a good mouthpiece to start out with. many people even continue to use it for many years, but other people switch to different models because they're looking for a mouthpiece with more flexibility than the b45 offers. I don't think you should worry about it "holding you back," though--I think it's a good mouthpiece. try it.
-Tyler
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-08-27 02:57
A B45 would not be among my choices for beginning students because it is too resistant mouthpiece for those just starting out. It will frequently encourage the student to over blow to compensate for the wide tip opening.
A B45 will be "fuzzy" sounding with the wrong strength reed for your embouchure.
Many excellent players, including some noted professionals use a B45 mouthpiece. They sound fine...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-08-27 13:42
B H - I agree with the above [somewhat negative] advice re: the B45, and suggest you "leaf thru" the above "what mp are you using" thread. I do minimal mp [and cl repair] work, mainly for early students, so see quite a few B45's, definitely NOT my favorite ! At present I have a good-playing Yamaha plastic here for a Noblet [student 2S] tenon recork, and a slightly used B45 as well, so with permission to do a SLIGHT cleaning-type reface, I'll try both this PM, and report. As the mp-using thread will say [in part], many teachers will [IMHO] recommend the student-line mps from Hite, Fobes, Genusa and several others for beginners [as I prob. will later]. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2006-08-27 16:00
Although Vandoren 4 and 4 1/2 are good strengths for close lay mpces such as the Vandoren M13, even us confirmed hard reed players would consider those strengths rather extreme when used on a B45.
I'll bet that your playing will improve (and life will be much easier) if you use a lighter reed on your B45. Try a 3 Vandoren; maybe even a 2 1/2.
If you are under peer pressure or director pressure to play on reeds with big numbers on them, try #4 Mitchell Lurie reeds, which should be about the same resistance as a strong 3 or light 3 1/2 Vandoren.
Let us know your results.
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-08-27 16:10
A B45 sounding good is totally up to the player. I think 4 1/2 is a rediculous reed strength for that mouthpiece! I would imagine your tone would be fuzzy, airy and spread unless you have some serious embouchure strength and lungs. Although, i really dont know because i have not heard you.
In high school bands, my US friend told me generally people thought the harder the reed, the better. This is definetly not true. So if your playing on a 4 1/2 (using it for a month) reed on a B45 just because you can, I would try something different. Ask your teacher about your sound and try some different mouthpiece/reed combinations and decide what you sound best on.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-08-27 22:03
My report on the B45 and Noblet 2 V, [not s as I said before] mps. Using a VD 2 1/2 reed [back-polished] the B45 played fairly well [brightly], so I gave the table a couple of "swipes" on fine SiC paper, showing it to be quite flat and was then able to see the lay length [possibly shortened a bit]. A bit of polishing of the table and curve on news print, and I believe it made some improvement. It made me revise my earlier "negativity". I did the same, with some tip opening, on the Nob, and found that a 2 1/2 Rico Royal reed played better, so was quite pleased with a couple hour's results. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-08-28 06:43
I started on a B45 and it did quite well for me for a long time, and I recommend it for my students. I switched to a Rick Sayre in HS and I currently play on a Scott.
-Randy
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Author: Band_Halt
Date: 2006-08-29 03:01
Thank you so much for replying so quickly.
It'll be cheaper on the plus side but does a B45 really lower you down to the 2s? If I played a 4, 4 1/2 on a Gigliotti, what strength would I be do you think? I don't think I could afford to get three boxes of reeds to try them out and the store that I go to doesn't sell reeds individually.
I've tried the mouthpiece with a size four and i'll just say that
1) I'm disappointed in my tone
2) I'm flat...REALLY flat
3) I'm sounding fuzzy but not much
4) I DON'T sound like myself.
5) There is no clarity in my tonguing so lets just say that it may be best if I dont tongue for the time being
John Scorgie-
Why would I be under peer pressure? That's silly. I say whatever reed strength it takes for my tone to become what it was before if not better then great. But 2 1/2? I played on that strength for two months in my beginning year.
I might get a box of 3 or a 3 1/2 Vandoren reeds. I played on those reeds in my 7th grade I think with a Vandoren 5 RV.
-BH-
Post Edited (2006-08-29 03:07)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-08-29 14:47
< I've tried the mouthpiece with a size four...
Try a 3 Vandoren; maybe even a 2 1/2 like John suggested. B45 is an open mouthpiece and requires a lot softer reed than your Gigliotti (which is close) or 5RV (medium close) mouthpieces. I've never played anything stronger than 2 ½ on Vandoren B45 and wouldn't use anything stronger than 3 ½ on a Gigliotti. Take more mouthpiece into your mouth. I've noticed that players who accts macho towards the reed strength bites very close to the tip (sometimes as close as 2mm) to make a hard reed play.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-08-29 15:21
It seems like you think the harder the reed, the more advanced/mature player! no, definetly not true... playing on a harder reed because you can just shows stupidity.
B45, like someone else has said is very open... 3 or 3 1/2 is a great strength for the B45 and will allow you to put more MP in your mouth, generally making you able to produce a better sound and give you more flexibility.
You might sound fuzzy because not enough reed is actually hitting the tip of the mouthpiece.
you dont have to buy an entire box to try a reed strength... music stores generally have flow packs or sell individual reeds. so buy 3 - 2 1/2, 3, and 3 1/2 and see what you sound like and try putting more mp in your mouth.
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-08-29 15:58
Band_Halt
You wrote: "it may be best if I don't tongue for the time being".
Don't even consider that.
IMO you need some professional guidance from an experienced teacher. It would be a good investment.
Hans
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Author: Band_Halt
Date: 2006-08-30 02:25
kev182-
I really should work on setting the mood for writing online. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I don't think that about the reed at all. One of my private lesson teachers used a softer reed than I did and she was of course a lot more experienced than I was and some of the upperclassmen in my band uses softer reeds so no of course I don't think that.
I'm just really confused on the different reed strengths for mouth pieces because I've heard different things. So please clear this up for me; the wider your mouthpiece is, the softer the reed you need? How low the strength goes for Vandoren reeds? It's pretty obvious that I’m still very much a beginner compared to everyone else here but I’m willing to learn.
hans-
My preferred lessons teacher is on vacation with his wife sadly and I didn't want to disturb him. I really do want to call him. I'm still tonguing don't get me wrong. But I almost broke down yesterday because I couldn't articulate the way I wanted.
----------
My tone is better. There's only a slight fuzz from concert F to the concert B flat but I only have those notes for warm ups so that's good. Unfortunately, I cant reach the notes above the staff strait off the bat. I have to play chromatic up to the note.
I asked all of the upperclassmen of their opinions and all that came out of them were shrugs, one question about what clarinet I have, and one "shut up." So that was no help.
Thanks & I'll go and get the reeds soon.
It's like I'm surrounded by professionals.
B_H
Post Edited (2006-08-30 02:39)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-08-30 03:21
> *** the wider your mouthpiece is, the softer the reed you need?*** <
The distance from the tip rail of your mouthpiece to the tip of your reed is called 'tip opening'. Mouthpieces with the larger tip opening requires softer reed in comparison to the close tip mouthpieces. If you look at the tip opening guide below you will notice that your Gigliotti mouthpiece falls into 'close tip' category and Vandoren B45 into 'open tip' category. So, if you play #4 reeds on your Gigliotti you'll need about #3 reeds on your Vandoren B45 etc.
tip opening in mm:
0.95 & less – very close
______________________
1.00 - close
1.05 - medium close
1.10 - medium
1.15 - medium open
1.20 – open
______________________
1.25 - very open
1.30 – jazz/ethnic open
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2006-08-30 03:33)
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-08-30 12:05
Generally the wider the tip opening, the harder the reed will feel. So It's hard for me, and a lot of other people on this forum to think your playing a 4 1/2 on a B45! Haha... Thats tough for even the most experienced players! and if your saying your a begginer I really think either your sticking almost no MP in your mouth, or using the reed to the point it becomes softer or just putting up with an extremely airy sound. Either way your going to end up with a worse sound.
So let us know when you try some softer reeds! =D
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-08-30 13:11
Very well said, Vytas, also Kevin [is your Interlochen {between lakes} in NW Mich, as I recall, or Switzerland, been there too, NICE !] ? Earlier, I should have suggested that if you [and band] are full-time in the altissimo, as for marches, that "somewhat" harder reeds are needed. My playing is in concert band on bass and alto cls, [only a few marches] so I dont have alt. "Speaking problems", am seldom above the lower clarion, so use quite soft #2's and clipped #1 1/2 reeds, Rico Royals preferred, on med-open mps. "To each his OWN" Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-08-31 09:25
Yea interlochen is between 2 lakes in NW mich.! yes its absolutely beutififul there =D
I agree hardee reeds can definetly help get out alt. registers however it also depends on what mp your using.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-08-31 14:44
"Can anyone with expeiernece with a B45 tell me what it's like. "
All B45s are not necessarily identical. The only way YOU will be able to answer your own question is to try out various mouthpieces along with some B45s using your setup inclucing the same reed.
Bob Draznik
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Author: D
Date: 2006-09-01 08:17
Go to the vandoren website and under
products
clarinet mouthpieces
Bb
Choose your mouthpiece
you will find a very useful chart which shows you which range you should be looking in for your mouthpiece. As has been said above only the very smallest tip openings sound good with the very hard reeds. There is also a useful tip opening and facing length diagram that shows where all these areas are on the mouthpiece so you knowwhat you are looking at.
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2006-09-03 04:38
I have a B45 and it plays beautifully. But only after I had David Spieglethal reface it. It was very stuffy before that. He is very reasonable and gives prompt service. dspieg@earthlink.net. It is a very open mouthpiece, so you do need some chops and a 2.5 or 3 reed.
Leonard
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Author: Scotti
Date: 2006-09-03 06:36
Can we bring this a little closer to reality? Yes, it seems like using a strength 4 reed on a B45 is too hard, but I can't believe how many people are recommending to drop down into the 2/2.5 range.
No Vandoren mouthpiece, even the very open B45, is terribly resistant. In my experience, Gigliotti mouthpieces have a close tip, but aren't that free-blowing overall. I can't imagine dropping down to anything lower than a 3 is a good idea. I don't care who I offend with this statement, but if you need a 2.5 to play a B45, then something else is wrong.
Now, Band Halt, I would recommend you get some 3s or 3.5s and just play them. You said initially this is for marching band, so frankly, it doesn't really matter much how you sound, as long as you can produce a decent resonance. If you're worried about your concert band performance and sound, I would practice on your other mouthpiece and think about marching band and your Vandoren about 5 minutes before leaving the house to go to school or practice. It shouldn't be that hard to compartmentalize.
Now, that being said, why did you get this mouthpiece?
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-09-03 11:10
Not offended (not even playing B45 anymore, but B40) , but 2.5 to 3.0 seems logical to me. I play V12 3.0 which is roughly 2.5 classic. And it is a good mix between 'power' and flexibilty to me.
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Author: kev182
Date: 2006-09-03 12:12
I totally agree, 2-2.5 IS way too soft for even a B45...well its all relative. 3-3.5 is ideal. Since day one of learning clarinet I've been playing 3 on a B45 and moved up to 3.5 later on. I was always able to get a decent sound. Overall i thought it was a good mouthpiece, however reaching altissimo registers i found was much harder compared t omy M13... i really don't like my M13 either =(
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