 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: klarisa
Date: 2006-08-28 13:04
I have a buffet RC clarinet which plays very well. So i like to play this clarinet for many more years if possible. the clarinet is about 18 years old now. Problem is that the silver layer on the keys is bladdering off. leaving a very rough surface, a feeling which i don't like under my fingers. should i
a) get new keys (is this possible and will it be as good as the original ones)
b) have the old keys relacquered
c) by a new clarinet (hopefully not)
d) any other suggestions .....
any information about prices and effects of the suggestions above would also be welcome.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-08-28 13:15
The "best" solution is buffing and replating. This necessitates a full overhaul so the cost will be the plating ($200) plus the overhaul ($400) so you are in for $600 to $800 dollars. The good news is that this is much cheaper than a new clarinet and (bore distortion issues aside) you'll be good for another eighteen years.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: kal
Date: 2006-08-28 14:36
Ditto on the replating, but she's in Belgium, so prices for her could be very different. Besides, even by US standards, I think $400 for an overhaul is rediculous.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-28 17:56
$400 for an overhaul is ridiculous? That's very cheap at the price!
How much do you think an overhaul should realistically set you back?
Look up Die Holzblaeser in Berlin to see their costs - things are different here in Europe than in the US.
And in London you should expect to pay around £350 (GB£) for a full overhaul, and that doesn't include replating - that would almost double the price.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-08-28 17:59
You can always find it for cheaper, but it probably won't be as nice. To get the price where you live talk to people in your band or network to find some options. Good luck with this project.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-28 18:15
I had my Series 9 full Boehm Bb and my R13 Eb silver plated by Buffet's plater and casting maker, and they did a fantastic job.
Also with having keys (and possibly the pillars and tenon rings) replated, they need to be well prepared before plating to get rid of loose plate and pitting, and that's a lot of work in itself to get all the keys papered up completely smooth, buffed to a mirror finish, cleaned up then sent to the platers.
And that's not the end of it - once they're back they don't fit due to the plating (usually a minimum of 25 microns) increasing the overall dimensions of the keys, and the key barrels have to be reamed out so the screws will fit, the ends of the barrels fraised back so the keys fit between the pillars, threads in the keys (for the flat spring screws and adjusting screws) and pillars have to be re-cut, etc. so it's a major job to do, but well worth it - and certainly a lot less than the cost of a new clarinet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-08-29 11:56)
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Author: CEC
Date: 2006-08-28 19:33
Chris,
I'd like to discuss with you the plating you had done by Buffet's plating folks (I recently had my keys replated, but I am unsatisfied with the work and will likely have it redone next year, so I'm looking for a quality outfit). If you're willing, please e-mail me at:
chrisREMOVE@mastermediagroup.com
(Remove the "REMOVE" )
Chris
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-08-29 11:23
Klarisa, It sounds as if damage to the surface is not just wear from abrasion.
I don't know what you mean by "bladdering off".
If there is pitting, then this would suggest "galvanic corrosion". It very likely has a lot to do with the nature of your perspiration, or if even inaccessible surfaces are affected, the atmosphere of your environment. (Acid rain, industrial smoke, vehicle exhaust, vapours from open fire, vapours from geothermal activity, etc.) Even if you have this replated, the same thing may quickly happen again.
If the plating is peeling off in small sheets, then perhaps it was never done well in the first place, such that it is not adhering properly to the base metal.
You mention re-lacquering. Clarinet keys are not normally lacquered. They are plated, with silver or nickel.
I know that some technicians will consider this outrageous, but lacquering may well be worth considering in your situation. Perhaps nail polish. This could fill any pits, and seal the surface against further exposure to the corrosive element or electrolyte. If flakes have come off, then nail polish is thick enough to restore a smooth surface.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-08-29 12:58
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
> I know that some technicians will consider this outrageous, but
> lacquering may well be worth considering in your situation.
> Perhaps nail polish.
I've done that to a G# key which was so badly worn it would tarnish within a day or two. Nail polish did help, and if a more permanent solution is wanted later it is easy to remove.
I know that this is just working around the problem. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: klarisa
Date: 2006-08-29 17:49
thanks for the information so far.
The clarinet is silverplated, so i meanth replating not relacquering. (my english is not so good i'm afraid)
The silver layer is missing on the places where i touch the keys a loth. mainly on the rings. leaving sharp edges wich feel akward when playing the clarinet.
The problems started a few years after my son started playing on this clarinet so perspiration may have a loth to do with the problems.
There were no reactions of people who replaced the keywork on there clarinet? Is this not an option? must surely be a loth cheaper than the price of a new one?
If the problem is perspiration would it be solved by not using silver but perhaps nickel?
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-08-29 17:57
I was also considering a replating of my A clarinet (very old chap), but I didn't do it for cost reason. For me it was mainly an esthetical issue, so now the instrument doesn't look too bright, but it still plays ok.
To get a price quoted just mail the main shops here, they mostly answer quite fast. There are also a few good non-shop local repair guys, but they can't be reached by e-mail (at least I don't know there e-mail adres). I can provide GSM number and address if you want to (mail me).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-29 18:11
"If the problem is perspiration would it be solved by not using silver but perhaps nickel?"
No, nickel plate is only applied very thinly (under 10 microns) compared to silver which is usually anything from 12 to 25+ microns, and will also wear out. If nickel is applied thickly, as it's a hard metal it will be difficult to refit the keys as nickel blunts tools easily.
The sharp edges on your keywork caused by corrosion can be smoothed out before plating.
But if you do have it replated (which is the best option), make sure you use a soft cloth to wipe the keys with after playing to remove perspiration from the keywork.
You could always have the keys rhodium plated on top of the silver.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-08-29 20:05
Dear Chris P,
I wish someone had told me about the Rhodium option a long time ago. I have what I believe to be Karisa's problem which is a very high acid content in my persperation. People who don' have this problem can't even imagine how deeply and how quickly silver gets scored by the acid.
The soft cloth is THE answer that must be used once the keys are replated. I went through my first replating in a year because it took me that long to figure out that the keys must be thoroughly wiped off after EVERY use.
The Rhodium sounds great though. May make things a bit more slippery if you prefer the feel of silver but may be MUCH lower maintenance. As for cost and availability I have no idea (Chris????), no one I've spoken to about replating over the years has ever mentioned this option.
Another option (add another $100 US dollars) is gold. With gold there shoul be no fear of the plating wearing away with the bodies natural acids. However, gold feels more like nickel (if you like that sort of thing) and there is the obvious asthetic difference - not everone's idea of sharp looking.
........Paul Aviles
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Author: klarisa
Date: 2006-08-30 19:56
Belgian clarinet,
I'm interested in to know who you would recommend for such a job, over here in belgium. also for other maintenance jobs on clarinet and saxophones. Can you contact me on my e-mail adress. i can't find yours on the site
Regards,
btw. you can use dutch ofcourse.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-08-30 23:19
Dude replating keys is VERY easy and cheap if you want to do it yourself. There's a replating kit on ebay or on many online sources that enables you to actually replate things yourself. the kit is inexpensive, and quite easy to use as instructed from the video that comes with it. The down side is that the type of silver plate that might come out of it might not be the quality that can handle daily rubbings when it comes to clarinet playing.
it's definitely worth looking into. replate and do it yourself. spend around $150. i'm a do it yourself kind of guy. $600 for a replate is just ridiculous.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-08-30 23:47
You'll first have to prepare the surfaces though. The plating is quick and easy, but if your surfaces are rough, as you say they are, then you will have to do a fair bit of work.
Also, all the handling during the preparation (buffing), and use of chemicals for the plating process itself, means you will probably need to replace soft materials - pads/corks/felts.
If you do it yourself, then the plating is likely to be a LOT thinner, and therefore far more susceptible to the corrosion you are already experiencing.
Also, if the preparation is not very thorough - up to professional plating standards, then the new plating itself will be porous, which in the presence of the harsh perspiration you mention, acting as an electrolyte, will provide perfect conditions for galvanic corrosion, showing as pitting - eating away of the base metal.
Yes, DIY plating is "easy", but there are many pitfalls.
Post Edited (2006-08-30 23:48)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-31 06:17
"$600 for a replate is just ridiculous."
That's still very cheap at the price, especially as a full overhaul is included in having keys replated - and I doubt anyone can do this amount of work at that price.
Does anyone even realise the amount of work involved in having keys prepared and replated, then having them all fitted, then the clarinet completely overhauled before they start scoffing at prices they deem 'ridiculous'?
Yeah you can go down the cheap route, though the results are just that - cheap.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-31 08:01
I'd be interested to know just how much (or how little) some people on here expect to pay for a full overhaul and replate.
$150 is barely covering the cost of the parts and plating - and any company charging that will be making huge losses on every instrument they work on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-31 09:15
Chris - you have to compare prices in relation to the country (or area) you pay them. For example here, the prices are more expensive (for most things) than in the USA, but the average paychecks are way way WAY lower...... Even most things that are more expensive in other countries I noticed that are actually less expensive in comparison with the country.
For example, eventhough the price of an "overhaul" is about the same here and in the USA, the average paycheck is about 3 times bigger in the USA (that from what I know average bruto paychecks, and doesn't include taxes, which are also MUCH higher here), so that makes the overhaul price here about 3 times (or more) more expensive in a more correct comparison.
An overhaul used to be about $250 US by the best repairer in my country. For reasons I'm not getting into he could afford to have a lower price than others, but as far as I know for the same reasons he left the country...... (although his price was considerably lower, he was by far the best repairer).
The repairers that are still here charge about $300-$500 US. I was offered a repad with goretex pads (the repairer recommended them) for $400. The price of an overhaul here doesn't include any replating.
Post Edited (2006-08-31 09:24)
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