 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-08-17 04:36
Damm.... If I ever win the lottery....
http://www.eppelsheim.com/kontrabass_klarinette.php?lang=en
Also check out his new Eb contrabass saxophone.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-17 09:13
I saw the guy in the samples play live, but he didn't have it with him then. He played a duo with the guy you can see the front picture on the Bb tubax page. He played this tubax and souned incredible.
How do you know how much this contreabass clarinet costs? I don't see prices on their website.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2006-08-17 10:53
An answer from 28/01/2005
====================
Mr. Bueds,
in Belgium, there is no dealer stocking my instruments. (your email address ending with .be tells me you are living in Belgium, is this correct?) You can turn to the dutch Aerofoon Atelier (email@aerofoon-atelier.nl), to Woodwind and Brasswind in Paris or Musik Bertram in Freiburg, south western Germany, or directly to us here.
The price for the Eb Tubax is EUR 14805 + VAT tax. (Bb Tubax , i.e. 1 octave below bass
sax+ 10 %) VAT is 16% if you bought it from Germany, 17,5% in the
Netherlands, or (I think) 20% in France.
Please feel free to ask more in detail.
With kind regards
Benedikt Eppelsheim
Benedikt Eppelsheim Wind Instruments
Mühldorfstr. 8 (Aufgang 4)
81671 München
Germany
T+F +49/ 89/ 29163889
www.eppelsheim.com
> who does sell your tubax ?
> Where can i find price lists etc ?
>
> Best Regards
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 11:59
I like the look of that - and the low A contrabass sax!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-08-17 14:46
WOW! I want one, I want one, I wantone, Iwantone, iwantone, iwantoneiwantoneiwantoneiwant..................................
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-08-17 14:49
*gapes* One is agog.
I've also been very, very, VERY covetous of the Contraforte for quite some time, and would very much like to have one. I play a fair amount of contrabassoon, and this thing would totally kick.
Of course, it's like, $30,000. *le weeping*
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-17 15:02
David, you are willing to setlle for just one??!!
DressedToKill, excuse me, but what is that thing??? Is it just the same as a contrabasoon only they call it different?
The contraforte player in the samples plays with impressive intonation on that thing!
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-08-17 15:11
The contraforte is a redesign of the contrabassoon, entirely in wood, with a large number of the inherent intonation and response difficulties of the contrabassoon addressed and fixed. (Supposedly).
I am dying, DYING to try it. (It's also absolutely beautiful, I think!)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-08-17 15:17
Gorgeous stuff. Notice that unlike the Leblanc, this instrument has all four of the trill keys for the right index finger.
Look at the beautiful Eb contrabass sax, too, at http://www.eppelsheim.com/eb_kontrabass_saxophon.php?lang=en. Does anyone know the function of the bluish gray flexible cable running from the upper vertical descending section to above the thumb hook?
The sax looks fine, and probably plays much better than the old ones, but the old ones, with the man-eating bell, looked better. For playing qualities, there's no comparison. Even Jay Easton, who specializes in giant saxophones http://www.jayeaston.com/Saxophonist_resources/saxResources_equipment.html, has trouble playing his Orsi in tune.
The wave of the low sax future is probably Eppelsheim's narrow-bore tubax. Loss of volume is made up for by economy of breath, fast response and better intonation.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 15:42
"WOW! I want one, I want one, I wantone, Iwantone, iwantone, iwantoneiwantoneiwantoneiwant.................................."
Yeah, but throwing a tantrum won't get you one, David - I thought you'd be old enough to know better! Now finish your ice-cream like a good boy and go tidy your room.
Yeah I noticed the full complement of side keys that Leblanc unfortunately
lack bar one on their contrabass (I can only see the side Bb on Leblanc contrabasses - no side F# which is strange - let me know if I'm wrong though).
Shame I can't see too much detail of the little finger keys on the Eppelsheim - it looks like six keys for the right, possibly laid out like current Selmer, Buffet and Leblanc basses, then there's obviously the two thumb keys (but is it Db and C, or D and C?) but I can't see if the LH has a low D touch as well - I think I see a LH Ab/Eb though. If they have used Selmer or Buffet's layout, then they've gone down the right route.
All the same, it's definitely something to look forward to.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-08-17 17:07
This Eppelsheim guy is a genius, someone should write a book on him or something. If I could afford to (financially and intellectually), I would do a PhD with him as my research subject. Thesis titled "Benedikt Eppelsheim: Biography of a Creator and his Revolutionary Influence on the Design and Manufacturing of Saxophones and Other Reed Instruments".
You read it here first, I want credit if anyone decides to take it on : )
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2006-08-17 17:14
Ok...seriously. I know that contrabasses are cool, but what would you do if you had one? I cannot imagine the use of it outside a concert band. What would you do with it? Really?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 17:18
Hmmm... wonder if he'll ever make Sax system oboes and cors (and all other sizes, or even a Sax system Heckelphone) as well?
Maybe Guntram Wolf might have a part to play in that too!
Fingers crossed!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-08-17 17:21
Well, these instruments will attact those players or recording musicians who specialize in low reeds, believe it or not, there are quite a few in Europe. Schorn, Puntin, Schmid, Fuchs, Angster, Golia, and others.
Anyway I don't see the use of a harp that often in symphony orchestras, but that doesn't diminish its respectability and utility, so I say the same should applies regarding low reeds in wind bands.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 17:32
Unfortunately (and like the harp), the majority of town or city concert or wind bands lack the skilled players to play these instruments well, or even have any of the players that have these low reed instruments due to the high cost they command, so we have to do with a few low brass players (and again, there's only a few that can play and own bass trombones and tubas) that spare their time.
Competent bassoon, bass clarinet and bari sax players are pretty thin on the ground in most concert bands where I am.
And most of the very few specialist low reed players already have a busy schedule and get better paid work doing film soundtracks or any professional engagement that they won't turn down paid work to work with local wind or concert bands.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-17 17:51
"Ok...seriously. I know that contrabasses are cool, but what would you do if you had one? I cannot imagine the use of it outside a concert band. What would you do with it? Really?"
I would play it a lot when I play improvised music, which is most of what I play.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-08-17 17:58
"When it does not have a wooden core, it is not a clarinet"
maybe I'm overdoing a bit, but years ago when comparing a 'metal' buffet contra with a selmer wooden version, there was (for me) only one winner (and trust me I own 2 buffet Bb and A and a wonderfull Prestige Bass).
No wood, no clarinet ?!
It's just an opinion, and it really really like the black wood/silver keys of my bass.
It does not only sounds nice, it LOOKS nice too -) (rosewood or wathever it's called will do fine for me also)
Post Edited (2006-08-17 18:01)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 17:59
And there's the question of how would you transport it if it won't fit in your car?
I struggled with getting my Yamaha bari around in my Mk2 Golf and having room for more than two passangers and their gear (it either went in the front pasanger seat or across the whole back seat as it didn't fit in the boot, and my back seat wasn't a 60/40 split seat).
And that rules out Mazda MX5, Toyota MR2, MGF, Merscedes SLK and other small convertible car owners in the rain or winter! As for a Smart car... there's no hope there!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 18:05
"When it does not have a wooden core, it is not a clarinet"
Does that rule out plastic clarinets as being clarinets too?
It's not in the material, it's all in the bore design and mouthpiece/reed that makes a metal tube what it is, so a cylindrical bore with a flared bell and single reed mouthpiece is always a clarinet, and a conical bore with a single reed mouthpiece is always a sax. A narrow conical bore with a double reed is either of the oboe family, or bassoon depending on how the keywork is laid out.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-08-17 18:06)
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-08-17 18:29
BelgianClarinet, I have only heard and seen a photo of the Buffet metal contra, it must have been made in the early days. It has a long upturned bell similar in profile as the Orsi metal contra. Is this your experience or am I wrong? How did it play all prejudice aside? Thanks
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-08-17 21:11
I realize of course that there is more to it than 'wood'. And somehow it is only the 'sound' that matters, but ...
I'm refering to a period somewhere in the early '80.
I saw at that time the (here) famous Walter Boeykens clarinet choir, and they used the Buffet Contra's (I think someone called it paperclips models). They sounded link a 'low'-clarinet, but didn't look like one.
About the same time, my teacher (Freddy Arteel) bought - for the Genth conservatory - a Selmer contra - wooden version (somekind of oversized Bass), and that was a clarinet !!! The pure beauty of it was so overwhelming that the metal contra's, really became 'paper clipses' !!!
I know that on this board there is a never ending discussion on plastic, wood, and instrument types etc. but maybe it is the 'romantic guy' in me that prefers the 'unpredictable beauty' of wood.
I'm (being an amatuer) most likely not capable of hearing the difference between a top plastic model and a wooden version (played by a good musician), but I still find part of my pleasure and satifcation in clarinet playing in the beauty of the 'natural' and 'unique' material.
And isn't that part of the fun, ...
I own (besides the 'normal' wooden Bb and A (RC)) a Prestige Bass, and I know someone playing a plastic Yamaha bass. It could be that the problem lies with the guy playing the plastic, but whenever I here him play a note, I'm really convinced that I invested in the best piece of wood one can affort ;-)
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-08-17 21:14
The "paperclip" nomeclature in the context of contrabass clarinets is normally applied to the Leblanc models 340 and 350. The metal Buffet contra might have been a Leblanc. But Buffet did in fact manufacture a metal contrabass in the shape quite similar to the Eppelsheim model.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-08-17 21:29
I'm quite sure it was a Buffet, because Walter Boeykens (fantastic clarinet player !!, don't know if he is know out there .) was a Buffet Artist for many years.
I saw the name 'paperclips' on this board, and actually the metal tube that was called 'contra' at that time, looked a bit like a paper clips.
I think total height was relative high (guess 1.60 m) and it ran up an down.
I never saw this metal pipe close enough to give a good description;
The Selmer I did see really close and from what I see on the Selmer site, it still is the same. A 'bass'-clarinet shape, but going up to 180cm or so.
I made myself a promise : if I ever win the lottery I'll buy one (and an alto, and a bassethorn, and a ....), problem is, sofar I'm not playing in the lottery :-)
PS. said the same about a bass clarinet. But 2 years ago just bought one without wining lottery, .. sofar this gave me more pleasure than winning lottery. (Am I a clarinet addict ???)
Post Edited (2006-08-17 21:33)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-17 22:27
From what I gather I don't know if Buffet have ever made BBb contrabasses, and if they did I don't think they'd have made them in all metal (I reckon they'd be more like the Selmer contrabass), and in the paperclip form like Leblanc have done - I know they've been making (and still make) contra-altos (EEb) but they're wooden-bodied and resemble a bass clarinet in design, what I mean by that is they have a metal crook, wooden body and upturned metal bell.
Anyone who knows more of Buffet's history with regards to BBb contrabasses please feel free to add your thoughts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-08-17 22:43
I've been playing (sporadically) a metal Leblanc BBb 'straight' contrabass in a clarinet ensemble, and it really is quite a decent instrument, although I find the lack of some of the side trill keys disconcerting, to say the least. It's unwieldy in the straight form, so have to play it standing up of course, but mechanically the Leblanc is pretty straightforward and it plays well enough. That said, I STILL WANT THE NEW EPPELSHEIM CONTRABASS REALLLLLLY BAD! And I won't stop kicking and screaming until I get one!
As for the metal vs. wood discussion, all I will say is, I've had a number of Kohlert bass clarinets in the last decade or so, some made of wood, some made of hard rubber, and a couple (including my current instrument) made of metal. Being of otherwise very similar design, they've all played well and have sounded close to identical to each other. I will guarantee that NOBODY (not even golden-eared Vytas) would be able to consistently identify, in a properly-conducted double-blind test, the material of which these instruments were made.
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-08-18 02:44
I'm with Dave Spiegelthal on that ... chucking a tantrum, however, won't a contrabass clarinet buy ... maybe hocking my dot will?
And, in all seriousness, the sound files on that website are truely fantastic. I really, really want one of those "big bastards" (Aussie slang).
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2006-08-18 06:57)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-18 08:48
"I own (besides the 'normal' wooden Bb and A (RC)) a Prestige Bass, and I know someone playing a plastic Yamaha bass. It could be that the problem lies with the guy playing the plastic, but whenever I here him play a note, I'm really convinced that I invested in the best piece of wood one can affort"
You can't make a comparison between plastic and wood, when there are so many phisical and psychological differences between those clarinets (and played by different players!).
The reason that the plastic Yamaha is not as good as the top model Buffet is because the Buffet have a lot more invested in it (I'm guessing both work and research). It has probably better acoustic design, better attention to details, and better build quality. Plus the comparison is between two different players who probably use different mouthpieces and reeds, which make even a bigger difference than different clarinets.
As far as I know there is no plastic/non-wood bass clarinet being made at the highest level, so it is impossible to make a reliable comparison of different materials with bass clarinets. Just the huge difference in sound between the top Buffet and Selmer bass clarinets, both made from wood, is enough to see it would be impossible to compare the different materials as long as there are design differences, which make a huge difference in comparison.
By now I am convinced the only way to prove something like this is to isolate it from any other changes (both phisical and psychological). This can only be done by scientific experiments or blindfold tests.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-08-18 14:37
I don't think the material makes any difference. With my handmade mouthpiece and barrel, I defy anyone to hear a difference in tone between my well-tweaked R-13 and a plastic Vito. I can feel a difference, but it's not huge.
I watched as Jon Manasse picked out several instruments for his students at Eastman, and the ones he chose were all Buffet Greenline Festivals.
Alexander Williams told me he played a silver Bettoney Eb in the New York Philharmonic, and Gaston Hamelin played silver clarinets in the Boston Symphony and for his famous recording of the Debussy Premiere Rhapsodie.
Kalmen Opperman spent hundreds of hours undercutting the toneholes and doing other voicing and tuning work on a plastic Linton/Bundy Eb contra and a Vito BBb contra. These are true professional instruments, as you can hear on the Stoltzman CDs, where Dennis Smylie plays them in the Opperman Clarinet Choir. I've played them both, and they're in a different league from anything else.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-18 16:57
Like my plastic Yamaha 24 and my Selmer Series 9 clarinets - I can make almost the same sound on both, though the Yamaha definitely is the lighter and brighter of the two, though it plays every bit as well as my Selmers.
Maybe even better in some ways.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-08-18 17:31
Chris P
I've found this reference on the web
http://www.new-music.org/classifieds/ad-instr.html
one of the advertisements is talking about selling a Buffet contra (but is seems very old to me) and it is the only reference I can find.
I always thought they were buffets, but maybe I'm wrong, I'll check with someone that was more involved in the choir.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-18 17:52
There's a Wurlitzer Reform Boehm bass listed on there! If only...
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-08-18 18:06
Chris -- check the date on the Wurlitzer ad -- it's from May 2005. Would you expect the instrument to still be available? Better to wait, save your money, and buy me the Eppelsheim contrabass for my birthday!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-08-18 18:55
Nice try, David! I think a new car is in order before I outlay any money on contras.
Maybe I ought to start doing the lottery!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Lobo
Date: 2006-08-18 19:16
I want one too, but I'm going to have to think real hard to justify it since I am in possession of a paperclip (not mine) which I can use for any group I play with.
Justification to get one:
- The trill keys and other extra keys would be great!
- It goes to C and the contra I'm playing only goes to D.
- It would be mine and not belong to someone else.
- It sits on the floor rather than the chair.
- Help! Give me some more reasons I can use.
I would like to get someone's opinion on the key positioning. I'm not thrilled about the Leblanc's when I compare it to my Buffet bass.
I've always wondered what undercut toneholes on a contra would do. Yet, I don't think anyone has tried this.
As far as carrying it in a sports car, there is no problem. I put my 1193 bass in the trunk and the contra rides shotgun.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-08-18 21:31
Lobo -
Look up Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS).
The ultimate reason: whoever dies with the most toys, wins.
Ken Shaw
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