 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rgames
Date: 2006-08-07 02:49
While recently updating my collection of clarinet recordings I came across the following recording of the John Williams concerto for clarinet:
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jwmz
I gave the audio samples a listen and thought that there must have been some poor-quality .MP3's on the site and went ahead and ordered the disc anyway.
Beware! That's how the CD actually sounds! It sounds as though the recording was made underwater in a nearby pool. I have never even come across an amateur recording that was of such poor quality. Given modern recording equipment, I can't think of how the recording engineer managed to make it sound so bad...
Mind you that I'm speaking of the recording quality - Zukovsky's performance sounds as though it was probably very good, but it's hard to tell because of the terrible audio quality!
If you were thinking of picking this one up, I strongly recommend against it!
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2006-08-07 03:25
Itunes has that recording in very good quality. Might want to look into it if you are really interested.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-08-07 03:30
Hmm.
I just tried the mp3 samples and the itunes samples.
They sounded fine to me. In fact....she sounds great!
Perhaps your cd was fried during delivery.
Admittedly a live concert recording is not the same as studio, but what I am hearing on my Edirols via the computer is an example of superlative clarinet playing.
Chauvinist piggy alert......she's is pretty, too.....sorry, but I aint too old to notice.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-08-07 15:42
I've ordered each of the Zukovsky recordings, and several have this problem. They were almost certainly recorded by someone sitting in the audience holding up a microphone. Some of the Kalmen Bloch recordings have the same problem. In each case, though, the performances are wonderful. For me, this overbalances the problematic sound.
But then I listen with profit, and even with pleasure, to acoustic and even cylinder recordings. Your ear gets used to them.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-08-07 15:56
On an orchestral note (no pun intended) I've got some old Soviet-era recordings of the Leningrad Phil. under Mravinsky doing Shostakovich symphonies, that sound worse than my earliest experiments with a cheap reel-to-reel and a five-dollar microphone back in the early 70s. Apparently the Soviets put way more money into their war machines than into their recording machines. Not to mention all the coughing (the concerts were recorded live, and I'm guessing it was during winter and half the audience was sick with colds). But the performances are well worth listening to anyway.
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Author: rgames
Date: 2006-08-07 16:21
Ken Shaw wrote:
> I've ordered each of the Zukovsky recordings, and several have this
> problem. They were almost certainly recorded by someone sitting in the
> audience holding up a microphone.
How do they get away with that and then market a CD? Aren't there legal issues, particularly with names as big as John Williams? There's no way that John Williams and/or Michele Zukovsky authorized the release of such a poor-quality recording (is there?)!
It's interesting that there's no mention of who did the recording on the CD - in fact, there are no credits whatsoever. It's also interesting that I actually ordered the CD from Tower Records and I can no longer find it on their site...
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-08-07 16:40
I believe that David Blumberg, who frequently posts on the klarinet mailing
list, was the producer of the Zukovsky recording.
Perhaps he will comment on the mailing list if a message is sent...GBK
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-08-07 19:47
Email response to me from David Blumberg:
(permission has been given to post on the Clarinet Bulletin Board)
"...here's the info on Michele's recordings. All of the Masters used I
got directly from her (I'm in Phila, she's in LA) - many were on tape.
The John Williams work was used with his Permission directly. I even have
his autograph on a photocopy of the Concerto that he signed in person after a Phila. Orchestra Concert.
There wasn't any "microphone in the audience" at all for any of them.
Unfortunately they weren't done in a Studio as her Studio recordings are
with Summit, but these are the live in concert recordings which we are
making available.
That master recording was from the early 90's and was quite damaged. It's
the ONLY RECORDING OF THE JOHN WILLIAMS CONCERTO. So without that recording, you wouldn't be hearing it at all. Believe me, if you heard the quality of the master recording, you would understand just how much better it sounds after I cleaned it up.
Man, I only **wish** I had a better master to work with, but alas, it
wasn't to be. The hiss on the original was unplayable..."
Any further questions about this specific recording can be directed off-line to David Blumberg on the klarinet mailing list.
...GBK
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-08-07 20:24
question directed at Richard for optimal recording of clarinet (topic has been discussed, but new insight always of value):
What mics do you use to record solo clar. or clar with piano?
positioning, (A-B, ORTF, X/Y cardiod, omni. etc). Do you apply any eq. into the recording before mastering, record flat, etc.?
Thanks.
If too off topic, please reply to my email.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: rgames
Date: 2006-08-07 21:47
Per GBK - I got a note from David and it appears that the master was damaged somehow. I assume that the same set of damaged masters was used to produce the other recordings mentioned in Ken Shaw's post - what a shame. I find it hard to believe that this is the only recording of the only clarinet concerto by such an important composer. We all need to lobby Mr. Blumberg and Mr. Williams to publish the work and get us another recording!!!
Allan - as far as clarinet/piano goes there are innumerable approaches. I prefer to have an omni pair for the room and then an individual mic on each instrument so I can "fix it in the mix." For the clarinet alone I like to have the mic(s) at least 5 ft from the instrument (otherwise you get too much key clicking and pad popping). I also tend to have the mic 4 ft or so from the ground and facing downward toward the clarinet. These numbers are rough guides that I use and will depend on the room, obviously. But in general, I like the mic some distance away and pointing downward towards the middle joint.
EQ is determined mainly by the room but, at a minimum, you'll need to get rid of the rumble with a high pass filter (either on the mic or in EQ). Most often I find that I need a little bit of "smile" EQ (mild cut in the mid-frequencies). I don't recall ever boosting the higher frequencies because I prefer a darker sound. Also, notch cuts in the higher frequencies can reduce breath noise and hiss from leaky embouchures.
Of course I should note that my experience is only with $300 mics - if I had one of those $3000 German masterpieces maybe my preferences would be different...
Regards,
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-08-08 00:24
Thanks for the technique tips.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-08 05:24
I would only add that imho the most important things to get a good clarinet recording is clarinetist, acoustics, and engineer. If those three things are good and everything else is even less than avarage you still can get a very good recording. To give one example, I recorded myself in my room with my mini-studio. AMT microphone, pretty cheap mixer and soundcard. The result was MUCH better than the recording I did (and luckily didn't pay for) in what is considered the best studio in my country. They even brought a special outside engineer. The clarinet and bass clarinet sounded horrible. It was before I knew anything about recordings, but if I remember correct the problem was the microphones were way too close, but also their placement. I had two, and they were probably less than 25cm away, one from the middle, the other from the bell (the worst place to put a microphone)! In that recording (probably the worst recording I ever had sound-wise) he used those "$3,000 German masterpieces" that rgames mentioned.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-08-08 14:55
See "New clarinet, the beginning" from "Velho" for a recording of a beginner done with a "Cowon X5" mp3 device. As Velho comments the quality of his playing is beginning level....BUT...my comment on the quality of the recording is that it's quite good.
Bob Draznik
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