 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: abc123
Date: 2006-07-30 11:08
hi there..
we know it takes experience to improve it, and that use of sidekeys are useful. but im not sure if for pro's/advanced players etc.. do they have to use side keys also, or is a good player supposed to beable to control perfect intonation without adding any extra fingers dowsn or any side keys? whats the ideal way to be playing the clarinet?
thanks
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2006-07-30 15:00
"...what's the ideal way to be playing the clarinet?"
The ideal way is to play in tune.
Professionals will do (should do / often will do) whatever it takes to play in tune:
putting down/lifting off extra fingers (alternative fingerings)
adjusting the height of fingers over tone holes;
use of side keys or any other keys that will help;
adjust angle of clarinet to body;
adjust :embouchure, tongue position, throat, air flow; etc...
The knowledge of all these and other techniques to playing in tune are very useful as many things can make your clarinet play/tune differently in various situations: weather, reeds, the vagaries of piano intonation, and many times - the other people playing with you.
Tom Piercy
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-07-30 15:00
abc123 wrote:
> whats the
> ideal way to be playing the clarinet?
>
> thanks
Play with rock solid rhythm, a singing, flexible sound which projects well, fluid technique, and (most importantly) being aware of your intonation on EVERY note you play.
Simple as that ...GBK
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-07-31 01:59
Um......... but let's not imply that one has a perfect note at every speed. Whenever the melodic line (especially in unison or octaves with others) is slow enough to warrant the "extra keys," half hole, etc. then by all means do so. However, if the intent of the passage at hand is to fly at super human speeds, all the notes may not necessarily have to be "perfectly in tune."
............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-07-31 06:59
"Simple as that ...GBK"
Haha!
Just to say one other thing, even the best players are not 100% in tune all the time. For example, I have a few CDs of some of the most in tune players in the world, and they are not perfect all the time (I mean also in longer notes, not only fast). About rhythm, I have a CD by one of the most respected American clarinetists, and he is not 100% correct rhythmically. But, this doesn't mean someone should not aim to do it perfectly (I'm sure those players do).
One small and cool thing Guy Deplus (spelling?) showed us in a master class, is sometimes he change the fingering during a long note, for eample if it is crescendo. He does it because of the change in intonation between playing very soft and very loud. When he did it, you couldn't hear any change. When any of the high level students tried it, you could hear the change of fingering.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-07-31 16:22
Hello,
I think this person wants to improve their intonation. The best thing that I've done is to play my clarinet with someone else looking at the tuner and "mapping out" my natural intonation tendencies. Anytime you look at a tuner, you will compensate and try to play in tune. Then, I have a great repairman adjust the intonation, so that every note naturally plays in tune. Then, of course, you have to adjust every note while you are playing to be in tune with whomever you are playing with. My saying is "have the confidence to know that before you play the note, you will be in tune, then once the note is played and if it's out of tune, assume it is you, then fix it [hopefully everyone else in your group is doing the same thing!!!]". Early in my learning, I bought "The Tuning CD" which was great, in my opinion. Good luck!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
Post Edited (2006-07-31 20:20)
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Author: abc123
Date: 2006-08-01 04:04
Redwine, that's an excellent response I was looking for.
1)Did you get someone who excells in music to map out for you, or just 'any bloke'?
2)I like the idea of the Tuning CD, how can one get it?
Thanks
P.S: your clarinet plays naturally intune in itself now?
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-08-01 13:16
Hello,
You can teach 'any bloke' to read a tuner and write down how many "cents" flat or sharp each note is. What I did was to use manuscript paper and write each note on the staff. Then, I had the friend look at the tuner and make notations next to each note about the tendencies. Then, I took this "map" to my repairman (actually, he comes to me) and we used it as a guide, along with playing the clarinet and verifying tendencies. Then, he enlarged some tone holes, made some smaller, did some pad height things, etc. So now, all of the notes with normal blowing are dead spot on 440, or perhaps slightly high in pitch (never low). All this means is that I have the confidence to know where each pitch is with normal conditions. Then, of course, every rehearsal/ensemble/concert presents its own conditions to adapt to. My band, for instance, plays considerably higher than 440, so I go to a shorter barrel. If I have the option, I tell the piano tuner to make sure the pitch is at 440 so I can use my favorite barrel, but often times, I'll show up for the gig and have to put on a shorter barrel, because tuners like to tune high so the strings stretch into tune (or out of tune) eventually. I guess the short answer is that your clarinet is never perfectly in tune--the artistry lies in your ability to make it play in tune.
I've seen the Tuning CD in the International Musician magazine. I'm sure you can search the web and find it too. It basically plays chord progressions and asks you play a certain chord tone to practice tuning. It will kick your butt!
I hope this helps, please feel free to contact me if you have any specific questions.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-08-01 13:33
Hello,
Mark's chart is much better than what I did. I wish I had seen it!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-08-01 13:39
redwine wrote:
> Mark's chart is much better than what I did. I wish I had seen
> it!
I can't claim credit:
Chart Compliments of (and Copyrighted © 1996 by) Steve Fowler of Fowler Music Service, Annapolis, MD. (410) 267-5991
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-08-01 16:28
I agree about the intonation problem. I found it very helpful to sit and practice with the tuner for hour after hour. Listen carefully and it helps to train your brain to "listen" for the correct pitch. When you play with others, however, they may not be in tune and you may be forced in certain situations to match their pitch. I have had to do this from time to time.
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Author: jez
Date: 2006-08-01 22:51
This belief that one can learn anything about 'intonation' from looking at a tuning machine worries me.
For example, a note played as the major third of one chord needs to be played VERY differently from the 'same' note played as the minor third of a different chord. The easiest way to test this is to listen for and try to tune the difference tones.
Also don't forget that tuning is ALWAYS affected by volume. If you play very loud the pitch will drop and vice-versa; something which too many players simply ignore. One needs to have flexibility in the embouchure and a range of sharper and flatter fingerings to negotiate the minefield of tuning.
It always makes me laugh when I hear someone say that their instrument is very well in tune. you might as well say that you have a violin that plays perfectly in tune. It's the player not the instrument that achieves good results.
jez
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-08-02 01:40
Hello,
But if your instrument is well in tune with itself, it is much easier to adjust pitches to the pitch around you. I agree that you are in control of tuning, not the instrument. The "machine" that you tune to, actually gives you chords, where you play one or another of the chord tones, so you are taking into account the third, the fifth, etc. tendencies. Please do be skeptical of technology, but don't dismiss it. I'm not saying that it is the answer, but it may help you attain your goal.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2006-08-02 03:12
It seems to me that Ben and jez are talking about two different things, both of which are needed for playing with good intonation.
A tuner is helpful to establish the pitch tendencies of our instruments over the entire range of notes. This is the starting point, and jez is right to say that basic intonation should be tested playing loudly as well as softly. The tuner is based on Equal Temperament and our instruments are manufactured to approximate an Equal Tempered scale. Doing a chart of those tendencies is a good first step.
However, in the process of putting together a CD-based method for clarinet intonation, I found myself also delving into the realm of Just tuning. This is what jez was referencing, I think.
Here is a quote from my method's introductory notes: "Wind instruments are made to approximate Equal Temperament and it is the only reasonable standard for melodic playing. But it is not enough, the ear being the final authority. We need....Just intonation - This is what our ears hear to be correct beatless intervals when playing together with other players."
With Just intonation, as jez suggested, the top note of a major third needs to be played 14 cents lower than the Equal tempered note to be beatless and pure sounding. The same note as the top note of a minor third needs to be played 16 cents higher than the Equal tempered note to be pure sounding. Listening to the difference tones is very helpful in this process. I found that playing intervals of a third within a just tuned 5th was a great way to hear the difference tones clearly.
Clearly, the goal of anyone teaching good intonation, or setting up a method for that matter, is to train the ear to hear the difference between being in tune or out of tune. What you are looking for is flexibility. Playing in tune is both a science and an attitude. I like oboist Robert Sprenkle's suggestion that the individual's tuning responsibility in an ensemble is 1/2, not 1/50 or 1/75, etc.
johng
John Gibson, Founder of JB Linear Music, www.music4woodwinds.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-08-02 06:11
"For example, a note played as the major third of one chord needs to be played VERY differently from the 'same' note played as the minor third of a different chord."
This depends on a lot of things and is not always true (from what I hear in music, mostly not, and not only this specific example). I completely agree with what you said about volume.
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