 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-07-11 06:05
I've been trying for the last year to avoid using the extra keys on my 1961-era Full Boehm Buffet (19/7) Bb clarinet. I've joined the crowd: marking L-s and R-s all over my music and making greased pinky slides.
Despite the work, there are times when I'll find myself reaching for one of those outlawed alternate fingerings --particularly the sliver G# and the left hand Eb/G#.
The motivation for doing that was to prepare myself for a life with a conventional 17/6 instrument.
Well, I finally made the jump and bought a fine, used Buffet RC from Walter Grabner. I've been tootling on the thing for a couple of weeks now, and want to let you know what its really like to be fully handicapped.
The only real problem is that I'm not letting up on the left pinky G#/C# (articulated G#) key when my right hand goes down --leaving a big hole in the horn --and failing to get the long notes.
I miss the TR -1 -3 G# fingering for Eb4 and Ab5, although I thougt that one had been exorcised.
In the first movement of the Crusell 2nd Concerto, the C#4 Trill was a lot easier on the old horn using the lower joint sliver G# so my left hand ring finger could flail faster.
Other than that, I'm OK.
(And the new horn makes louder noises, plays better in tune and facilitates the Altissimo. I wish I'd bought it years ago.)
Now, I'm looking for a good 17/6 A clarinet.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-07-11 21:18
The 4 extra keying possibilities of the 20/7 over the 17/6 are not always [or frequently] needed, and some may actually get in the way. If you are into many #s, as in transpositions, you may like the relief from cross fingering situations, and the Artic. C#/G# may be helpful. If your F B has a good [ long] mid-staff Bb, you may prefer it to the pinch or the A + 3rd trill. Try it, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Snowy
Date: 2006-07-12 02:25
Just my personal experience , having shifted (almost ) from a 20/7 to a pair of 17/6's. -- all Selmer 10s.
1. As Don Berger suggests the midstaff Bb seems more in tune on the fb than on the 17/6. Is there a reason for this ?
2. The sound of the 17/6 is defintely fuller .. and, to my ear at least, clearer.
3. The intonation of fork Eb/Bb is definetly better on the 17/6 than on the fb
4. The Db/Eb (Ab/Bb) trill is definitely harder on the 17/6.
5. What I REALLY miss is the alternate Ab/Eb left hand key, particularly in sharp keys.
6. It seems to me that, however many helpers there are on an instrument, there will always be situations where slide fingerings are inevitable.
Just wish I'd made the switcg earlier in my "career"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-07-12 02:58
My main Bb is a 20/7 Kohlert and its backup is an ancient big bore 17/7 Kohlert (~1919). Intonaton and tone quality of both forked Eb/Bbs is as good as my Leblanc 17/6 Symphonie A. Yours might be improved by a good tech.
I have found that I use the forked Eb/Bb and long Eb/Bb most. In fact, I've been using the 1-1 forked Eb/Bb a lot more when playing Eb clarinet, although it isn't nearly as handy on a 17/6 instrument. The long Bb saves a lot of break crossings. Mine is in tune, which I understand is somewhat unusual (thank you David!). The forked Eb/Bb is really handy. It's almost never slower than the trill key, and often a lot easier. The articulated C#/G# can be helpful in certain situations, since you can hold it down and it only opens at the right time. The LH D#/G# is actually the one I use least.
Yes, once in a while I still get caught and slide pinkies!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sean.Perrin
Date: 2006-07-13 18:02
I still don't know why it's so wrong to use these keys. I have the festival and use that Eb lever all the time. I'm going to try and get a lever added to my Eb as well actually because of the functionality.
Founder and host of the Clarineat Podcast: http://www.clarineat.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-07-13 18:53
IMHO - Its far from "wrong" to not use the extra keys that partial or full Boehm cls have, when they can serve a "fingering-problem" purpose. A case in point was my use of the "long [low] Eb" [for other than an A- transposed E nat.] as the final note of a Stardust [chalemeau] solo. As pointed out, the Alternate Ab/Eb is prob the best of the 4, simplifying many cross fingerings. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-07-13 19:48
Actually, the "key" most missed so far is the articulated G#. I've been relying on having the G# tone hole closed automatically when my right hand goes down. I'm finding it challenging to anticipate the right hand and get the G# key "off" in time to make a clean transition.
I did reach for the left hand Eb yesterday!
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Michelle
Date: 2006-07-13 20:24
I am used to my bass and alto clarinets, as I play them almost exclusively and they have the extra ab/eb lever. Recently I've taken up the soprano again for a musical and I am desperately missing my extra keys! When the key signature reads ###### my eyes bug out and my fingers cramp up and I really really wish I had my extra keys! I may end up having to look for a clarinet with those extra keys if I do any more gigs like this.
Michelle
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-07-13 21:25
The only resource for them these days is either through Amati (and I have some serious workmanship issues with my one Amati horn) or through the after-market (i.e., "the auction service").
I recently landed a 16/6 Boehm horn (no low Eb) from the Selmer Series 10S family. Total cost for secondhand purchase and complete restoration was in the $900 range, and I consider it money well spent. Your mileage may vary...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-07-14 14:34
Terry,
Is your Amati a late model? GBK has had good things to say about his. I've been considering an Amati A clarinet.
Michelle,
My Buffet is being evicted from my music room. Maybe you should audition it.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-07-14 18:01
Bob,
for what it's worth, I own two Amatis, a 211 (wooden with plastic bell) B and a 251 (plastic with wooden barrel/bell) C clarinet. I'm very happy with either, the intonation is consistent and I have no complaints about the workmanship. "Wet" holes have leather pads, the keywork is solid, maybe a bit on the soft side. The 211's upper joint's tenons are metal-sleeved - a very sturdy student horn. The only thing I did unto it was to replace the thumbrest with an adjustable one. I'd recommend it to anyone on a budget and not willing to shop for a used/overhauled one.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-07-15 23:13
My Amati horn is a Oehler style one, not a Boehm, so my associations are indirect instead of "hands on" with a Amati Boehm horn.
I like the padding (although had to have several of the vent pads replaced with cork in order to regulate the height of the rings), but the keywork is certainly not up to French standards. I'd also like to have the tone holes fraised somewhat differently, but have not the time nor the extra money for that right now.
(The Amati horns also look tacky, with their huge gold logos scattered here and there.)
Of the "full Boehm" instruments that I've played, I preferred the Buffet the least, the one Heckel horn (they used to make them all back in the day; there's a reproduction of the Heckel catalog sheet in Geoff Randall's The Clarinet) next in line, the Leblanc horns next (clunky feeling, something akin to holding a small alto clarinet in your hands in my eyes, but dead solid keywork), and (but of course) the Selmers best of all.
My "new" Series 10S "feels" about the same as my Series 9 horns, but there is a certain shift in balance that has become noticeable over the past couple of weeks. Nothing wrong, just slightly different, and most likely attributable to the lack of the low Eb key.
Of all of the full Boehm devices, I have found the Eb extension at the bottom of the horn's compass to be of the least utility. I don't like the Bb alternative that it offers (too different from the B above it), and I've got an A clarinet for use in orchestra situations, thank you very much. However, it does do a good job of evening up the tone of the B natural above it, particularly over the normal "bell vented" B on a standard horn.
Rating their utility, I would place the articulated G# key in a tie with the side Ab/Eb lever for the most used, and the fork Eb/Bb trails as a distant fourth (and only barely above the Eb extension as far as frequency of use. However, if I played "high" parts more (I usually sit the Reed IV or V book in musicals), I would get more use out of the Eb/Bb a lot more.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-16 13:21
It'll have to be something very serious happening to my Series 9 set that makes them unplayable to stop me playing full Boehms - though it won't stop me looking out for replacements, and I have a back-up Leblanc LL full Boehm to use.
And as I can't fit a marching lyre to my Selmer or Leblanc full Boehms (as the G# key is in the way - I use a lyre that fits on the middle socket ring, not on the bell) I know they definitely won't get knackered up if I have to use them for marching as I won't use them at all - I have a plastic Yamaha for that.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
