 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-07-07 22:45
Looking at the BBC site, it's clear they reversed the image. Costanza would be the lady on the right wearing the checkered shawl and looks the correct age range.
Mary
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-07-08 13:39
The guy behind Keller looks like he is holding ......naw, couldn't be...a clarinet.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2006-07-08 16:13
Ken, could you document your view that the caption is incorrect? I am wondering why, if the front row is identified incorrectly, why the back row seems to be correctly identified? Also, why would the two daughters stand behind a guest rather than their own mother?
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-07-11 01:16
Good lord ... if that IS Constanza it's fantastic ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: ned
Date: 2006-07-11 05:40
''Good lord ... if that IS Constanza it's fantastic ...''
Why.......................was she a composer too?
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Author: bawa
Date: 2006-07-11 08:25
I think for me it just showed up how I imagine time in mind.
Mozart sounds remote, somebody who lived in an era far removed from ours, when you think of photography, it seems to be somehow modern.
The fact that there is a photgraph of his wife just brought home the fact about how young he died, and if he had lived a "normal" life span, how much closer he would seem in time...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-07-12 11:43
Thanks Ken for the exposure to an interesting website(blogsite?). I now have a suspicion that the woman in question is actually George Costanza's grandmother, Emelia Cantstandya....
Bob Draznik
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2006-07-12 15:23
From a trusted source... this is a hoax, see below.....
The "newly discovered" picture of Constanze Mozart has already been published twice in the 1950s, the last time in an article by E. H. Mueller von Asow in the Österreichische Musikzeitschrift, March 1958, p. 93. For decades it has been known as a hoax among Mozart experts. There are no outdoor photographs of groups of people dating from 1840, because the lenses invented by Joseph Petzval, which were to make such portraits possible, were not available yet. It was simply not possible in 1840 to take sharp outdoor pictures of people as long as the necessary exposure time still amounted to about three minutes. The first outdoor portraits of human beings originate from the 1850s and the picture in question definitely looks like an amateur snapshot from the 1870s. If the BBC (or anyone else) knows a verified group portrait originating from 1840, I would like to see it. But the guys in Altötting wanted to have their share of fun and publicity in the Mozart-year.
Sincerely,
Dr. Michael Lorenz
Institute of Musicology
University of Vienna
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-07-12 16:15
There has been some countervailing information on the Klarinet list and the Scholar board from Dan Leeson. A friend of his is a modern dauguerrotypist and a historian of the process.
According to this expert, comparatively fast dauguerrotype methods were developed early on. While it would be impossible for the leaning man in the picture to maintain the posture for the 20-30 minutes the original process required, the faster methods took only 5-10 minutes. This makes the picture possible, particularly since dauguerrotypists carried braces that the subjects used to keep themselves steady. The giveaways are the feet, which are often blurred, and the eyes, which appear all-white, since few people can hold their feet still, and no one can hold their eyes still.
The clothing historians have not weighed in yet. They should be able to nail it down.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-07-12 16:20
mnorswor wrote:
> There are no outdoor
> photographs of groups of people dating from 1840, because the
> lenses invented by Joseph Petzval, which were to make such
> portraits possible, were not available yet.
However, if you keep digging, there is yet another source which say is most certainly was possible to take such a photograph because hypersensitivation was available which would have significantly shortened the exposure time without the fast lens designed by Petzval.
Then again,, another scholar says that since Constanza had severe arthritis in her later years it would not have been possible for her to travel to take this picture.
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2006-07-12 19:06
After doing a google to see what else might be written about Constanza, I did view two paintings of her made during her lifetime and found many similarities to the photo. Just to say, I'm not convinced either way about the validity of the photo, BUT, I found something I had never heard before: Constanza von Weber was a cousin of the Carl Maria von Weber, their fathers being brothers. New to me. Has anyone else read this and would like to comment?
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-07-12 20:48
Douglas,
I was aware of Constanza's relationship to Carl Maria, but do not wish to comment at this time.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-07-13 20:39
Let's just say, the musicology group has stopped talking about this days ago, agreeing that it is a hoax.
Best regards,
Mary Vinquist
retired and tired musicologist
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Author: ned
Date: 2006-07-14 03:48
Hoax or no hoax - it's hardly important really. A photograph or dauguerrotype of the man himself, would be of much more interest, alas he died in 1791, 48 years before the invention of the daugerrotype even.
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Author: diz
Date: 2006-07-14 05:44
She was only a photographer's daughter ... over exposed and under developed.
tish boom
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-07-14 14:31
"it's hardly important really." But what is important is how a hoax can parade as fact and fool so many people.
Bob Draznik
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Author: larryb
Date: 2006-07-14 19:30
BobD - read the rules: no political statements on the bboard!
oh, you meant the photo...
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Author: ned
Date: 2006-07-15 05:09
''But what is important is how a hoax can parade as fact and fool so many people.''
Most people are happy to take information presented to them as ''fact'' as it saves having to think or research an issue to determine the truth.
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Author: graham
Date: 2006-07-16 10:00
There is at least one hoax here: that the photograph has only just been discovered. And if that is a hoax, then there is a much greater likelihood that it is a hoax all round. Is the collection short of money and trying to raise some through a sale I wonder? I'm no medic but to me, the lady in question gives no impression of suffering from arthritis.
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