 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Phaedra
Date: 2006-07-05 23:31
Morning all,
I've been lurking here reading the archives for a few weeks now, and I have yet to find someone with a similar problem to mine. I joined a local community band a few weeks ago (one started specifically for adult beginners) and I've been noticing that I'm playing flat most of the time, and really flat (more then 20 cents) in the lower clarion register. I've spoken to my teacher about this, and she tried my set up (with her own ligature and reed) and found she was struggling to get it into pitch, and found also the same variation in the clarion register (flat at the bottom, sharp at the top, and sharp in the altissimo too). With her own mouthpiece, it was a little improved.
She leant me one of her mouthpieces, the buffet one that came with her R13, and it seemed to help a little too. We had a lesson focused on air support (something I know I'm lacking), and the next day I bought a box of harder reeds. The harder reeds, and her advice on air support seemed to just click on Monday night, and I've got my pitch up significantly, even when I go back to my old reeds. The problem is, I'm now sharp through most of the range on the clarinet, really awfully sharp (more than 20 cents) in the throat notes (even with my right hand down), and the higher clarion B and C, but still only just in tune or even flat in the lower clarion register.
Is this something any of you have encountered before? Could a different mouthpiece or barrel improve the situation? Could it be keys out of alignment? Or would the holes need work?
In the short term, I have my first band performance on Saturday afternoon, and so far I'm only one of three soprano clarinets who have signed up for it. My new harder reeds seem to hold the pitch more evenly, but of course I haven't had a chance to break any of them in yet. Would it be better to play with a non-broken in reed (that I still find quite resistant) than my old ones with the greater pitch variation?
In the longer term, its looking like a new clarinet may be needed, unless it can be adjusted somehow. I am trying to decide whether to go with a better student instrument (there's a used Yamaha C100 for sale for $495 including a first service) or spend twice to three or four times as much for an intermediate instrument. There aren't many used intermediate, let alone pro instruments out there in the used market that I've found.
My set up is an Armstrong 4001 plastic student clarinet, with a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece, BG super revelation ligature and Reeds Australia Vintage 2 or 2 1/2 reeds. I've been playing nearly three months now, after taking it up just before my 30th birthday. I played flute in school from grade five to year 12, played flute for three years in the SA Secondary Schools Concert Band, played cornet for two years in a local brass training band, so I am not new to this music game. Any advice you can give would be appreciated.
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2006-07-06 00:22
Strongly tempted to say "It's the clarinet". Ask your teacher if you can try her instrument first. If that makes a difference, then think about your next move.
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Could you play that part a little more greenie-orange? - Olivier Messiaen
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-07-06 02:29
Sounds like you have perfect pitch and your problem may be, in part, learning to use your embouchure and setup with the kind of control that will satisfy your sense of pitch. When you gain control over your ability to create tone, then reconsider your pitch and the possibilities of investing in a new instrument.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-07-06 03:06
Guessing:
Your work out with the harder reeds firmed up your embochure --leaving you with a raised pitch.
I'm also tempted to say, "its the horn," but don't run out and buy a better one until things have settled down, and you have other measures of goodness that you want to improve.
Bob Phillips
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-07-06 03:31
>and she tried my set up (with her own ligature and reed) and found she was struggling to get it into pitch
if your teacher cant play it in tune.... then presuming your teacher is qualified, its the horn...
armstrongs are not very good instruments. fwiw, i won't teach students on armstrongs - i make them get a differnet horn....
used E11's go for about $400-500. somewhat less on that auction site which will not be named. this would be a much better choice, coupled with a decent mouthpiece you'd probalby get better results.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2006-07-06 04:18
A large part of the problem may well be the instrument. Just make sure you're not using much jaw pressure, if really any at all. What Bob said may be true. If you had to use more jaw pressure to play the harder reeds, and NOW you're sharp, you may need to relax your embouchure a bit. (Think "poise" not "pressure").
-Tyler
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2006-07-06 13:19
My experience with the Yamaha mouthpieces is they are pretty bad in terms of pitch...one of my students plays so out of tune on the Yamaha 4c I gave him a B45 which really helped steady his sound.
David Dow
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2006-07-06 21:26
If you can play the long fingerings in tune, or even slightly sharp, then pull out the barrel. See, pulling the barrel flattens the throat notes more than the long fingerings. You might be closer than you think to cracking this one!
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Author: D
Date: 2006-07-06 22:08
Can you find a shop that will rent to buy on clarinets? If you could rent with the option to put the rental towards the purchase price if you want to buy it after a few months, then you could have a good try at another clarinet and see if it does make a difference or if the 'fault' (tuning is for whimps in my opinion) is with your technique.
I am concerned that your teacher can't get it in tune but hasn't said to get it fixed or a new instrument. Have you though of getting a second opinion from someone in person and not in the electronic ether?
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Author: Phaedra
Date: 2006-07-06 23:20
Thank you everyone for your advice.
I had band practice last night, and with my teacher's mouthpiece and my new reed and whatever I'm doing different with air or embrouchure or both I was playing much closer to the rest of the band. I'm feeling much better now about Saturday's concert, because I was really worried I'd be letting the section down by playing so flat. Plus three more clarinets signed up last night to play in the concert, so I'll be one of six now.
I'm now feeling better about waiting a litttle while for things to settle in with the new reeds and the different mouthpiece, making sure I'm not biting, improving my air support (and articulation, and finger/tongue co-ordination while I'm at it), so I can trial some different instruments and/or mouthpieces with greater confidence in my own technique. Plus it will give me time to wait for the various bits of documentation I need to do my tax return, and find out what my potential budget is for a new (to me) instrument.
Rent to own is a good idea I am considering. My local shop which offers this only stocks Buffets (not that I have anything against them, not having tried one yet, but I'd like some choice). The other shop that offers this is the one which I let bully me into the Yamaha 4C mouthpiece in the first place, because as a beginner I wasn't allowed to try anything other than that one and a Vandoren B45, which I didn't find as responsive at the time.
Just to clarify things, my teacher DID recommend either getting it fixed or replacing it. She didn't know what a fix would cost, but she recommended someone who could do it (the same person who did my repad and recork when I bought it), and some places I could look for used beginner instruments (haven't had a chance to go there yet). She also has a friend in her band wanting to sell her Buffet E13, and she is going to see if the friend is willing to leave the instrument with her so we can look at it together (but she doesn't know what the friend wants for it yet). E13's seem to go for $2200 new, and this one is 2 years old with supposedly the only fault being some wear in the plating on the register key.
Plus I'm keeping in mind that I have an appointment with a neurologist in a few hours, who will probably diagnose carpal tunnel syndrome in my right hand (parts of my right hand are numb all the time, although I don't have the terrible pain that usually accompanies this problem). I'm bearing in mind that someone at some stage (either the neurologist or my doctor or the hand specialist he'll refer me to when I have my diagnosis) will recommend taking some time off playing, and this will be an ideal time to see if my clarinet can be fixed, and not be an ideal time to be looking for a new one.
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