 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vitoclarinet
Date: 2006-07-01 22:06
i'm trying to purchase a new clarinet and i was wondering about the general price of an R-13. Last time, i went to this clarinet dude who does repair and stuff and he told me that they're around $2700 now. I was quite taken aback when i heard this because my clarinet teacher had told me that it would be around $2000...
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-07-01 22:13
vitoclarinet wrote:
> I was quite taken aback when i heard
> this because my clarinet teacher had told me that it would be
> around $2000...
$2200-$2500 is closer to what they're selling for at the moment.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-07-01 22:29
I heard that in June Buffets prices have gone up according to some people I know. I think the price is now in the 2400 dollar area for nikel plate. Anyone else hear the same?
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-07-01 22:53
I recently ordered an R13 Bb, silver plated, from Lisa Argiris (www.lisasclarinetshop.com) and she has quoted me around $2600. That's pretty close to 'standard' pricing as far as I know, and especially good quality since she hand-selects clarinets. I'm really looking forward to getting my three trial clarinets! Hopefully she won't make the decision too hard for me, although she says that's get job!
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Author: Musinix
Date: 2006-07-02 01:15
While I was at the OU Clarinet Symposium, I noticed that a couple of vendors were asking $2567 for a nickel R-13. I asked about the price increase, and at least two vendors said there was a price increase on June 1. One of the Buffet representatives also quoted the exact same price. Another vendor also mentioned the recent price increase, but said it was unofficial, whatever that means. Since I was in the market for an R-13, I negotiated with a vendor that I knew always had the lowest price, and I was quoted a very attractive price, although it was slightly higher than before. If you're looking for a new R-13, you still might still be able to negotiate a lower price.
Thomas Fiebig
Post Edited (2006-07-02 05:26)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-07-02 02:53
ww&bw is quoting $2195 at the moment. call them, phone prices are usually less than their web site prices.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Susan Eileen
Date: 2006-07-02 06:53
Just purchased an R-13 (not silver) from WWBW WITH new VD mouthpiece for total of $2,284.94. They send three clarinet and three mouthpieces.
They paid for shipping, etc. BUT be prepared that you have to send back the two other and with insurance that could amt. to $50 + for so. Also, find out the conditions of returning ALL three if you don't like any. For example what are the cleaning fees, do you play original shipping, etc.
Worked with JD at WWBW and am very happy with the service and the clarinet is WONDERFUL.
I know that this topic is controversal so this is my opinion, but my old 1962 was really worn out even though I kept it in repair on a regular basis.
Susan
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Author: msloss
Date: 2006-07-02 21:28
Folks, we are in a transitional period here. Buffet launched a new pricing program in June and the price "Musinix" quoted as well as Morrigan is in fact the floor in the US now. Some dealers may be slow to the dance but this is going to be the price you will see going forward.
And of course the requisite disclaimer -- I am a Buffet Crampon dealer.
Mark.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2006-07-06 04:09
I just bought an R13 A clarinet from Walter Grabner for $2700, but he said that Buffet's new "minimum retail price" for an A clarinet was $3100. The reason he could sell me this one for $2700 was because he had it advertised for that price before the June 1 price increase.
The way he explained the price increase increase was that small retailers couldn't keep up with large ones who were selling clarinets at rock bottom prices. Large dealers were selling clarinets cheaply and demanding the instruments from Buffet cheaply, forcing Buffet to keep manufacturing costs LOW. According to Walter, it wasn't possible to continue manufacturing clarinets at a high quality for such low prices. I think this is what he said. If anyone here understands this better than me (or if Walter is around here and can correct what I've just said) then please chip in, I'm curious.
It looks like I bought my new set at just the right time!
Of course, those nice bass clarinets are still out of reach in the $6000-$80000 range. Oh well.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-07-06 05:39
I'm guessing the WW&BW will take longer to increase their prices because they already have a huge stock of R13s.
I just looked around some websites, and the price of a silver plated R13 is the same as what I paid for a Prestige R13 not that long ago!
I'm wondering what exactly "minimum retail price" that Max mentioned above mean - Can Buffet force dealers not to sell for less than a certain price? Is that legal? Is the "minimum retial price" just a recommendation?
I remember when I bought my bass clarinet the advertised price on all the websites was something like $7,100, and I was surprised the price was exactly the same on all of them. The actual price I paid was $6,100 and differed between stores. I see both Grabner and Muncy has the new price of almost $8,600. I am guessing it is actually sold for less. WW&BW still has the former advertised price of $7,371. Are they selling it at a lower price because it is stock they have left from when they bought them for less, and the new price is for clarinets bought from Buffet after the price increase? Am I correct to assume the clarinets remain exactly the same?
Also, is the price increase just in the USA? I looked in some English stores and the price for example of the low C bass clarinet is around $6,200.
Thanks.
Post Edited (2006-07-06 06:06)
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Author: Martha
Date: 2006-07-06 10:31
I agree with Paul. Don't go through a vender, go to wwbw or muncy winds in North Carolina. Order a few from both, wwbw is cheap and muncy winds is a bit more pricey but you're more likely to get quality as they are all hand selected. Also, when you've made your decision, go to a local instrument repairman and have it checked out for any cracks that may occur in the near future, you may want to rethink any near the tone wholes. Oh, and when buffet says that they will replace pieces while under warrantee, they really mean replace whole sections. Their R-13s are suposively from the same piece of wood so you really don't want to do this. So, it really is very beneficial to see you're local instrument repairman so that they can check things out.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-07-06 10:55
clarnibass wrote:
> I'm wondering what exactly "minimum retail price" that Max
> mentioned above mean - Can Buffet force dealers not to sell for
> less than a certain price? Is that legal?
I don't believe it's strictly legal in the US - a dealer is free to lose money. There is such a thing as MAP (minimum advertised price) where there's an agreement to publish only that price as a minimum (which is why you see the "price will appear when you put it in your basket" or "call me for lowest price" on the advertisments), and there are agreements in place not to discount certain brands when theres a "10% off everything" coupon kind of thing.
I'm sure there are other loopholes in the law ...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-07-06 12:07
Martha wrote:
> and have it checked out for any cracks
> that may occur in the near future,
If it were only that easy.
> Their R-13s are suposively from the same piece of
> wood so you really don't want to do this.
What???? ...GBK
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-07-06 12:08
Martha - all clarinets (with the possible exception of one of a kind custom clarinets) are made from random billets of Grenadilla wood for each joint and your chances of getting two billets from the same section of the same tree are rare. Makers do try to match, often but not always, similar grain structure and coloration for the top and bottom joints, bells and barrels with the rest perhaps sometimes at the final stages of production. Most makers receive pallets of precut billets (some few still age and cut their own) that are dumped into huge bins where workers reach in to make either a top or bottom joint at a work station. Semi-finished and turned sections are then dumped into a new bin for the worker at the next work station. Each succeeding work station further shuffles the pieces of wood.
I do not know that even by close examination that anyone can tell where a new crack will appear. Existing small cracks may enlarge but you should not buy a new clarinet with an existing crack IMHO.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-07-06 13:25
"they are all hand selected"
Yes, I personally hand select mine every day. Do people actually believe the "hand selected" pitch as having any real meaning ?
Bob Draznik
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Author: vitoclarinet
Date: 2006-07-06 14:09
sorry if this is a little out of topic, but would it be somehow a better idea, for me, to rather purchase a E-11 instead of an R-13? I mean, i'm not thinking of playing professionally anytime soon and i will only be a sophomore in high school band this fall.
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2006-07-07 00:29
DONT GET AN E11 If i had a choice to play a wooden instrument back in high school it should have been the selmer signet soloist elkhart version. Find them on ebay, but by all means DO NOT gET AN E11 they are so stuffy compared to the selmer signet soloist.
if you want to talk about getting your next step up clarinet, shoot me an email. i'll send you pictures of my selmer soloist. they are to die for as a step up from a vito.
also pick up a greg smith 1+ mouthpiece. it complements any clarinet.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: clarinetgirl09
Date: 2006-07-07 00:55
When I was in 8th grade, I got an E-11. Believe me...it wasn't a bad instrument in the slightest. I actually kind of liked it a little better than someone else's R-13. It served me well for a little over a year, but now I have my own R-13 that I prefer over my old E-11. You never know, vitoclarinet might find an E-11 that could compare to any horn around, because it works for that particular person. As I am going to be a Sophomore this year (just like vitoclarinet), I'm happy that I have a new horn. I got mine in the middle of my Freshman year (this past year). There are other horns on the market other than a Selmer Soloist. What works for you may not work for the next person in line. Just like you like the Selmer Soloist, vitoclarinet might like an R-13...maybe even something of another brand such as Leblanc.
But if money isn't an issue, try as many R-13s, E-11s, or any other horns as possible. But either way, the E-11 and R-13 fine instruments, and there are PLENTY of others on the market. One might work better for you than the other.
I haven't tried any of Mr. Smith's mouthpieces, but I'm saving up for one at the moment. Right now I play on a Walter Grabner CXZ_K11, but has my search stopped? No. Vitoclarinet might have a mouthpiece/reed/ligature combination that he/she loves to death and works for he/she.
__________________________________________________________
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
Music is a sory told from your soul; a story of passion, of life. Share your story.
Post Edited (2006-07-07 00:59)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-07-07 03:45
C2thew,
Of the literally hundreds of thousands manufactured, how many E11's have you played to draw this sweeping generalization?
jnk
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-07-07 05:54
"also pick up a greg smith 1+ mouthpiece. it complements any clarinet."
I don't have experience with the Greg Smith mouthpies, but this genetral statement is just wrong. For example, my Eaton clarinet plays flat with almost any mouthpiece other than the Eaton mouthpiece or some Vandorens I've tried. It is not a guarantee that any mouthpiece will work with a certain clarinet.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-07-07 15:04
c2thew, i couldn't disagree more...
i've played dozens of E11's. I've never found them 'stuffy' - unless one had a leaking pad, easily corrected. they have some quirks - but 'stuffy' isn't one of them. they're fine instruments if you can't afford a R13, expecially coupled with a longer barrel and a a-440 pitched mouthpiece.
buying instruments on ebay is dangerous for students - not recommended.
so sayeth someone who has bought and sold dozens of ebay horns. some are good, some go into the trash can.
you should always try multiple instruments before buying.
vito has a private teacher, go with your teacher's recommendation ; advice taken from internet boards has to be tempered by not knowing the experience level of the person posting.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2006-07-07 15:09)
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2006-07-07 15:54
Just a quick note:
Based on the gradual and certain long term decline in the value of the US dollar against the Euro, and increased fuel costs, the cost of almost all imported will certainly continue to go up.
This means that for years to come the price of our beloved clarinets, mouthpieces, and reeds will certainly go up.
This is the personal price America pays running a deficit.
However, now might be a good time to buy, because the dollar is less weak then it will be in the future. And the longterm trend is indeed down.
Of course one can get around the unfavorable exchange rate and buy an American made clarinet.
Bart
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-07-07 16:01
Gee, Bart, I;m glad to hear that you've got the future of the American Economy wired. Wish I knew what was going to happen to the dollar. I'd be another Soros, or maybe a Warren Buffet. (Not that I'd want to embrace the politics of either, especially the former.)
b/
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-07-07 16:15
Bartmann wrote:
> This is the personal price America pays running a deficit.
Interesting. The American dollar has been strong during the the current deficit.
In fact, one might argue that a weak dollar is the cure for a deficit, since the cost of American goods abroad goes down commensurately.
But economics is not the purpose of this board, and most of us don't have the depth to talk intelligently about it, other than to repeat jingoisms.
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2006-07-07 17:27
When the Euro was introduced, the idea was that the exchange rate would be one to one: one dollar for one euro.
The exchange rate is now $1.27 to one Euro. So any exchange rate where one dollar is significantly less an a Euro will not be good for American clarinet players looking for new equipment.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-07-07 17:31
Bartmann wrote:
> The exchange rate is now $1.27 to one Euro. So any exchange
> rate where one dollar is significantly less an a Euro will not
> be good for American clarinet players looking for new
> equipment.
Oh well - the CHF:EUR ratio is about 1.6:1, but usually we pay twice the EUR number in CHF - so a EUR 1000 toy becomes CHF 2000. And the importers wonder why there's so much cross-border shopping...
--
Ben
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-07-07 18:13
Bartmann wrote:
> Mark wrote:
> "The American dollar has been strong during the the current
> deficit"
Hello. The current deficit started in 1976.
Now, back to something that we might know something about ...
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-07-07 19:21
I don't think that it is only the exchange rate that counts. When trying to get something (scores etc.) out of the states the price is never in direct relation to the exchange rate.
Some 'importers' have to make money too.
With todays Internet it's a bit easier, but even then import taxes etc. still seem to play an important role.
Experiences (totally outiside the clarinet business) also learned me that cost (to produce) and price (to buy) have a funy relation, depending a lot on the country of purchase. If street prices can be high in US, then you just pay more, if not then lucky you.
Buying musical instruments in Belgium is still one of the rare markets where 'discounts' play a major role. Catolog price of RC ,your R13;-), will be decreased by 25% or more if you 'know' the scene. If not, and you just go to a shop without a 'pro' you pay the full price (or get an 'exceptional' for you only 10% discount)
When buying instrument for our orchestra we just pplay the game : ask prices at differnent locations, 'use' or pro's (also to test the instruments) and .. we always get great prices.
Post Edited (2006-07-07 19:22)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-07-07 19:30
BelgianClarinet wrote:
> When buying instrument for our orchestra we just pplay the game
> : ask prices at differnent locations, 'use' or pro's (also to
> test the instruments) and .. we always get great prices.
IOW the unsuspecting customer without any connections is the idiot. (not that it were different here...)
--
Ben
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Author: vitoclarinet
Date: 2006-07-07 20:00
I have another question- my teacher gave me another option(since 2700 is just too big of an investment), which is used R-13's. She said that used R-13's are priced a little more reasonably, usually in the 2000 range. So i was wondering if that's a good idea. I mean i don't exactly know if an used clarinet would cost that much, you know, like 2000?
Post Edited (2006-07-07 20:01)
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-07-07 20:44
Used R-13's often sell around $2000 (at least at around Toronto).
You might also want to check out Orsi & Weir Varese model clarinets.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2006-07-07 23:07
Most companies which import across currencies will hedge to take some of the volatility out of their prices, or simply absorb currency fluctuations as part of the risk of doing business. That's why the prices of Toyotas and televisions don't jump around with every twitch in the forex markets. Currency is not going to be the prime motivator of price movement in clarinets unless the Euro or the Dollar lurch violently out of whack. Scarcity of material, limited production capacity, demand for the product, cost of labor, and the manufacturer's pricing power all feed the price increases. You want a cheaper clarinet, hope they start making them in Taiwan or China. The price could go down, but will it be a clarinet you want to play?
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