 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-06-30 12:46
Can I make my own cork grease? I understand that petroleum products can soften the glue under the cork, but are there oils or waxes that I can mix up myself that will be safe to use? Thanks
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-06-30 13:08
The old tallow and beeswax mixture is good stuff (and natural) - melt them both together and pour into a greasepot, then leave it to cool.
If you're not happy with the consistancy you can always melt it down again and add more beeswax or tallow, or a drop of scented oil to make it smell better.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-06-30 13:23
(Disclaimer - I make all natural cork grease)
Well have a wack at it !! Cork is wood so materials that are compatible with wood and are known to preserve wood are the starting point. I have had several people say that they use lanolin on their cork - this is an animal derived product that is slippery but also destroys cork over time - inspection of their cork indicated that it had lost much of its compression and rebound properties.
One problem - from experience - is that mixtures of waxes and oils yield a product that is not necessarily slippery enough to yield a good cork grease so some of the plant "butters" can be used to add some degree of this lubricating quality. You will also have to add a "hard" plant wax to keep it from melting in hot weather. I am just looking at my "Natural" ChapStick(R) and it contains mango butter and shea butter and bees wax and works OK on lips - perhaps cork too? Some plant "butters" will build up too fast and also tend to ruin the resilience of the cork. Plant oils and butters tend to separate from the wax phase and therefore you almost certainly need to add an emulsifier to keep them together. Other plant derived oils have some good lubricating properties and are known wood preservatives but still need a "slippery agent" - I use an extract of slippery Elm bark which is proprietary.
Good Luck in your experimentation.
L. Omar Henderson
Doctor's Products - www.doctorsprod.com
Oops - forgot the antioxidant - plant oils and animal fats will turn rancid over time so many use Vitamin E but this is only a good antioxidant in animal fat systems and actually a rather poor plant oil and "butter" antioxidant but possibly used in the ChapStick(R) because it is USDA approved for skin contact applications.
Post Edited (2006-06-30 14:05)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-30 13:44
Better to just use Doc's cg and use your spare time to develop your clarinet playing expertise. What's the point in trying to reinvent the wheel.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-30 13:59
BobD wrote:
> What's the point in trying to reinvent the wheel.
I don't remember anyone saying that to "The Doc" ...
Experiment on!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-30 14:11
The late Abe Galper made his own cork grease - once - from a 50-50 mixture of lard & beeswax. IIRC, he melted a pound of each together.
It lasted him 50 years or so without any problems with corks, and he gave a lot away ... I have a small tin of it at home.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2006-06-30 16:03
I used lanolin for the past 5-6 years and had what appeared to be good results. However, just recently I got out an old tenor saxophone that I had in the closet as a back up horn. I had not treated it's neck core for at least 5 months. The cork was in a dried out condition that, frankly, surprised me. So, I ordered a tube of Dr. Henderson's cork treatment and it brought the tenor's neck cork back to a "glowing" state of health. Most impressive! I'm now using Dr. Henderson's cork treatment exclusively on all of my clarinets and saxophones. I highly recommend it to others.
Roger
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-06-30 16:28
My teacher has a coffee can full of Abe's concoction.
He prefers Omar's fwiw
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2006-06-30 16:44
bwilber,
Reur "petroleum products can soften the glue under the cork"... I suppose it depends on the type of glue the manufacturer used and the kb number of the "solvent" in the petroleum products used in manufacturing the cork grease. My guess would be that cork grease sold in music stores contains mostly paraffins, which aren't strong solvents. Aromatics like benzene or toluene, or oxygenated solvents would probably dissolve the glue, but you're not likely to find those in your cork grease.
After 18 years of using standard cg bought in my local music store, my clarinet's joints (with one exception, not related to cork grease) still have their original corks and they are in excellent condition. The same with my 1972 sax neck.
Cork grease is cheap and a tube lasts a long time. But if you like making your own, why not?
Regards,
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Joe B
Date: 2006-06-30 21:02
I have used mink oil that I get at Tractor Supply. It's a little thinner than the commercial cork grease and a little goes a long way. It is also very slippery. I haven't seen any negative effects from using it. Maybe the doctor could comment on its use.
Joe
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-06-30 21:15
Yeah, and by buying it at TSC, you don't have to catch your own minks and then squeeze them 'til they ooze the stuff. Smart move!
Anyone who is willing to mess around with rendered lard isn't going to be deterred by a little extra trouble in making their own product. Me, I just buy the stuff...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-06-30 21:18
(Disclaimer - I sell an all natural plant derived cork grease)
Basically, things that preserve wood - cork - should be plant derived IMHO and not animal derived. Petroleum obviously came from plants a few billion years ago but refined now into products that are ultimately not good for wood. Animal fats and oils do not preserve the cell walls of the cork - hexagonal cube structure - which are responsible for the compression and rebound capabilities of cork. Simply not turning the cork black and not making it flake (petroleum based products) is not the whole story in cork deterioriation. The cell walls of the cork cells must remain pliable for the compression and rebound to normal size in order for the cork to function in its job of keeping the instrument together and creating an airtight seal. Animal fats and oils infiltrate these cell walls and eventually cause them to collapse so they cannot rebound to normal size. Your cork may look good but notice that the joints become looser with time - the cork cells have collapsed. This prossess may take more time than the death due to petroleum products but it does take place.
L. Omar Henderson
Post Edited (2006-06-30 21:19)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-07-01 00:59
Thank you all for your help. Yes it is cheap to just buy it, but sometimes I think it's fun to mix up my own stuff just to see if it works just as well. Instead of using lard, maybe using vegetable shortening and beeswax and lanolin would work better. I have all three handy in my kitchen. I also have lard, but I get it that lard might compress the cork over time because of being an animal product.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: xxColorMeJoshxx
Date: 2006-07-01 03:21
Be careful! Shortening is dangerous stuff! Believe me - I decorate cakes as a hobby and when making buttercream icing shortening is the main ingredient. I can't tell you how many times I've had to throw away cake decorating bags after hours of soaking them in BOILING water because they're so grease-ridden. I personally would not use shortening.
-Josh
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-07-01 12:00
Josh, I did mix up a batch of cork grease using shortening and maybe it will destroy my corks, but it feels great on my hands and lips. So if nothing else, it will work for that. You might think it's funny mixing up my own cork grease, but I am an old lady and I like making stuff from scratch. That's just the old lady in me. Forgive me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: xxColorMeJoshxx
Date: 2006-07-01 14:07
Oh no I commend you for being creative! I was just worried about the shortening. Congrats on successful cork grease!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-07-02 00:39
Thanks for replying. I was afraid you were making fun of me. As far as the grease goes, I will probably have to use it for some time to see if it harms the cork or not. At least it works good as chapstick. Bonnie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lifeforms
Date: 2006-07-02 22:28
Was it quite a thickish cork grease that you got? I like the idea of making my own, but looking for a thicker consistancy that my current cork grease.
Can I substitue lard, or shortening for anything else? I don't want to use something made from nuts, veggie oil, or animal fat, if it can be avoided.
Post Edited (2006-07-02 22:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-07-04 23:44
The mixture that I made was about 2 tablespoons beeswax, 4 tablespoons vegetable shortening and about 1 tablespoon lanolin. The lanolin is actually an animal product though. It's a waxy oil taken from sheep's wool. At least it's not made by killing the animal and using it's fat. Anyway, I used a microwave bowl and melted it and stirred it well after it was melted. It gets very hot before the beeswax melts, so you have to be very careful not to burn yourself. My grease turned out quite thick. I do like the consistency though. But like I said, I would probably have to use it for a long time to know if it would hurt the cork or not. That's my recipe. Bonnie.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2006-07-05 13:32
Bonnie....nice recipe but I bet you will make more money from soap.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bwilber
Date: 2006-07-06 10:48
Yeah, I don't think there's a big market for homemade cork grease. But if it works, I don't have to go to the store (my music store is 20 miles away) for the rest of my life to buy it. Think of all the money I can save in gas.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-07-06 10:58
bwilber wrote:
> Yeah, I don't think there's a big market for homemade cork
> grease. But if it works, I don't have to go to the store (my
> music store is 20 miles away) for the rest of my life to buy
> it. Think of all the money I can save in gas.
Hmm - a 3 gram pot of my favourite lasts about a year/clarinet. So if I made a halfpound it'd last some seventy years. Maybe I should buy some more clarinets? ;-)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-06 12:22
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I've been using La Tromba cork grease on all my instruments and have had no problems with it damaging the cork as far as I can tell - my Yamaha 62 bari still has it's original crook cork in place and it's still a good tight fit with all mouthpieces, and that's after 16 years of use.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-07-06 12:32
> La Tromba cork grease
Now guess what's my "favourite" and "local brand"... ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
And the scent is irresistible.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-06 12:59
I knew you'd like that Ben!
The La Tromba in the early '80s used to smell like pear drops, though the current La Tromba has a more soapy smell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2006-07-06 13:14
"Just to throw a spanner in the works..."
Ha, don't hear that term much anymore except from ex-Navy men and Englishmen. How many readers know what a spanner is!
Regarding the smell of cork grease, the brand I used many years ago had a distinctive scent that I came to associate with Lazarus, "Gob Sticks" and other practice related items. If I think about it I can almost smell it. It must have been Micro as I believe that was all that was sold back then.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-06 13:43
I live in Sussex and play in a Royal Navy Volunteer Band (HMS Nelson), so you've pretty much hit the nail on the head there, Bob.
Some of the animal fat based greases do get a bit rancid over time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
