 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Laurie
Date: 2005-08-13 19:16
Hey All,
Im prepping Midsummer Nights Dream, Scherzo for an upcomming audition. I know how it goes, listening to the recording on end- The rhythm is there, Just i can't get it fast or clean enough. Should I use an alternating fingering in the 5th bar- Maybe play the B's on my right ? Would this help any ?
Besides practice, what is the best way to make this as crisp and clean as possible ?
Help!
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-08-13 21:21
In bar 5, i use left hand B, but then right hand B after that. When possible only use one hand for long B (in any piece of music).
This excerpt use to scare the crap out of me because fast staccato, especially when playing softly, was very difficult for me. My staccato has gotten better, and the main two things that helped (in this order) are 1-- Faster air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even if you think it's fast already!!!!!! and 2-- Lighten up with your tongue--as if you're playing legato but leave your tongue on reed longer between notes. No heavier than legato, just timed differently.
Don't try to play this excerpt at lightning speed. Most orchestras don't play this past like dotted quarter=98. I think to play it in dotted quarter=88-92 in your audition would be plenty fast. Or even a little slower if you need it to be even cleaner. And if it's cleaner it will sound faster, anyway... so remember that your air should be faster than your fingers or tongue on this piece!!!!
-Tyler
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-13 21:29
Play it slower than you KNOW you can for the judges. If they want it faster, they'll ask. But play it cleanly. I never saw the excerpt, but I know there's tons of threads on it. I remember this one sticking out in my mind because not only does it have information for Scherzo, but just a whole lot of other stuff to read too.
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=101441&t=101441
Hope it helps.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-08-13 22:46
Laurie -
When practicing this most difficult of excerpts, don't try to make the notes too short. In reality, the 8th notes that begin each measure of an 8th note followed by four 16th notes should be actually articulated as the shorter note. Try thinking of the 16th notes as being longer, and in a melodic way. Furthermore, make sure you are truly supporting the sound, because fast tongue passages become a lot easier with appropriate air support. You might also want to try practicing with the metronome on every 8th note, and gradually increase. There is a tendency to try to go so fast, you end up kind of bunching the 8th notes together, and playing them unevenly. Slow, methodical, meditative practice is needed to master this passage.
Best
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-13 23:15
Yup - Neidich said the same thing.
Short eighth notes, not really short sixteenth notes.
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Author: smross
Date: 2005-08-13 23:37
I don't suppose you're preparing this for the Marine Band audition in September, are yoU?
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-08-14 03:31
also, in the
"dah, da da da da" bars (or is that "da...., da da da da"????) ;-)
make sure that the 2nd and 4th 16th notes (semiquavers) are of good length and sound- often you get used to trying to play this faster by cheating on these notes slightly....
i practise
dah dah dah .... ... ... dah dah dah (alternating low octave, high octave)
then
dah dah da da
then
dah da da dah
then
da da dah dah
all on one note (then on the same note an octave higher) to make sure that my tongue is completely even- and is in fact HABITUALLY (2bs?) even.
meanwhile
time to find a reed- hope that that was helpful
donald
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-14 16:33
Lots of luck. I can't even play it fast slurred.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-15 17:03
Everyone has trouble with the MSND Scherzo. That's why it's on 100% of orchestral auditions.
Mark Nuccio (NY Philharmonic assistant principal) says to use the side keys for the middle B in the G#-G#-G#-B-A figure. Few audition committee members will be clarinetists. They care about whether you play the notes evenly and in tune, not what fingering you use.
Also, the passages are soft, not loud. Be sure to use a reed that responds well at low dynamics.
Ken Shaw
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-08-15 21:57
sorry if my posting was a bit cryptic
the point i was trying to make was this.....
....try to make it so that you can ROUTINELY tongue the 3/8 patterns cleanly and accurately on a single note. This way, when you work on the excerpt you will be thinking of it as a musical problem, not a technical one.
with this approach i've found this piece much less daunting the last two times i've had to play this at auditions (admitedly, i didn't get either job, so maybe you should ignore my advice????). As a "long term strategy" i try to always have pieces that require 3/8 or 6/8 articulation on the go. For instance- the flute solo from Midsum nd (out of a flute excerpt book), or the 2nd mvt from Telemann Bmin flute duo (in which you have to articulate lots of middle line Bs!!!!).
keep playing the good tunes
donald
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-06-28 21:29
I'm having problems with the trill part with the flutes towards the beginning. I simply can't get enough trills in at all! Any advice?
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-06-28 22:23
This excerpt drives everyone crazy. These are a few additional problems that you need to make sure you address if you have them, and some practice techniques that I've found helpful.
1st, the rests must be accurate. The best way to make sure they are accurate is to write the rhythm of what's predominantly heard in the orchestra over the bars of rest, and instead of counting, sing that part in your head. You'll have to practice doing this with a metronome, slowly at first (like 40 to the dotted quarter) gradually increasing in speed. This will also give you the opportunity to make sure your sixteenths are even, and it's actually harder to play this excerpt this slowly, and still keep it light, than to play it fast and light.
Also, it is absolutely essential that you understand when you are playing the "melody" parts that should be heard, and when you are playing an inner voice. For example, the first four bars, you're an inner voice, the next four, the melody.
In order to work on faster air, and to keep this excerpt from sounding like a technical exercise, you can practice it slurred, focussing on the height of the tongue in the mouth. Make a high arc with the tongue speeds the air, and you'll be surprised at how much easier it is to get a really good diminuendo to the high C. Also work on it legato focussing on long phrases. Never stop the forward motion on the short 8th notes, it always must move forward.
Finally, regarding the passage with the trills that starts at bar 41. There is a frequent tendency to drag this passage as it descends. Remember you're playing with the bassoon, and to try to add that to your tone quality. Also, the last two notes, don't play the last note too strongly, it's the end of this duet phrase, and must be finished carefully in the classical style. The pentultimate note should be stronger than the last note, even though it's an upbeat. (I think that's part of the joke, much as all of the accents on the second eighth note of the bar)
In order to learn to play this in a professional sounding manner, there should be two trills. The solution is to not get hysterical. Think in an orderly fashion, learn it very slowly, in rhythm, carefully playing a quintuplet(i.e. for the first trill A-B-A-B-A, etc.), gradually increasing the speed. If you absolutely cannot get a good quintuplet at that speed, and you're working towards a nearby deadline, you'll have to settle for a triplet, and aspire to the quintuplet in the future. A clean triplet in time is much better than a sloppy, inconsistent out of time mess.
Finally, the ultimate practice tool for rhythmic precision... There's a handy feature on your PC called sound recorder. When you feel that you can play the excerpt well at the tempo you need to get it to, plug in a mike into your sound card. Turn on sound recorder and play the excerpt. Then go up to the menu, and select decrease speed. You'll either hear how even and correct you are playing it, or you'll hear very clearly what you need to fix. Hearing what you played, slowed down to half speed is incredibly helpful. It also sounds an octave lower, but the point of this exercise isn't really to hear the tone quality, but rather whether or not your rhythm is precise. There are also tape recorders out there with this ability. The best quality one is the Marantz Half-Speed.
This has been my approach lately, I hope it helps.
Good Luck!
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: rgames
Date: 2006-06-28 23:24
One piece of advice I didn't see mentioned is to make certain you don't hang on to the eigth note too long - that makes it even tougher to get the following four sixteenths clean.
Also, figure out which trill fingerings work best for you. If I recall - one is an F-G: I think I do that one by leaving the thumb F down and trilling on the G# key (something like that). I had problems with that part, too, until I searched for some good alternates.
Many clarinetists share your concern over this excerpt - I've never been able to get it completely clean over about 82 bpm (you can hear it on the Recordings page at my website). I can cheat a bit at 84 and get through but I would never do it that way in an audition. 92 is pretty much out of the question for me - one of my goals for this year is to work on my articulation until I can get it clean at 86.
In the mean time, though, I find it much more satisfying to blame Mendelssohn for poor orchestration .
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2006-06-29 03:07
i am quite suprised no one has mentioned it but you can keep you right hand down as well as the right hand b key and then you do not have to move near as much. Also for the trills make sure they are all extremely unison. And most of all just start slow slow slow there is no reason to race through it if it is a mess. No one wants to hear that. The judges are going to be looking for cleanliness and that all the passages that are the same sound the same, especially the length and speed of the trills
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-06-29 04:38
Thanks everyone! I'll definitely use your suggestions!
rgames: I was trying to use the G# key for the F to G trill, but the tone quality isn't very good. Does it matter though, because the goal is to play this rather fast in the end and it will go by so fast that no one will really tell?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-06-29 05:49
Richard Ames I listened to some of your recordings on your website and I think you play very good! How did you record it?
Post Edited (2006-06-29 05:49)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-06-29 22:01
Yeah, nice recording Richard. I liked your tempo actually. I think it would be a good goal for me at this time in my life and for my college ensemble audition in 2 months. I don't think I could get it faster than that and clean in this short amount of time. Thanks for the recordings!
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-06-30 03:29
Oh, the right hand B works way better! Thanks! And I started using the G# key for that trill and it's working better. Also, I think I'm finally getting enough trills in-it's starting to sound like the pro's trills.
Just wondering-for a college ensemble audition, what would be the slowest tempo that you think would be acceptable to go? I know that cleaner is better than faster and I'll try to get it as fast as I can and clean. But what would be a good minimum tempo to aim for?
I'm at around 66 right now btw.
Post Edited (2006-06-30 03:30)
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Author: rgames
Date: 2006-06-30 12:24
Yes - the right-hand-down trick is good advice, too.
Carrie - you are correct that the tone quality with the G# side key is not great but I think it's fine for the trill. Cleaner is definitely better than faster: think of it this way, if you play it well more slowly the judges will know that you can, in fact, play it at some speed. If you play it poorly faster, they will be left wondering.
clarnibass - I have a basic recording setup with a couple of mics, preamp, soundcard, and recording software. Nothing fancy (maybe someday...).
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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