 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2006-06-26 14:37
I don’t know where I first encountered the term spinning the tones -- it could be from a post on this board -- but application of such has had a dramatic impact on the quality of my sound. It have to classify it as bright, pure, fully resonant, highly overtoned, but not at all harsh or reedy. In fact it has a woodiness to it.
I detect this same spinning of the tone in many orchestral recodings, but consistently only those of more recent copyright. I am wondering if this concept originated and began being applied in the late-1970s? In a 1979 release of Wagner overtures (Lorin Maazel) this spinning is readily detected in the woodwinds and brass, but is only sporadically heard in the strings. In a 1988 recording (Klaus Tennstedt), the whole orchestra spins the tones. Is this a difference in how things were being taught, or a difference in the recording techniques used?
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-06-26 16:21
I first heard the term "spin the tone" from Harold Wright when he was my colleague 1960-70. I suspect that he picked up the concept from Marcel Moyse, the great French flutist, who was his Marlboro "guru". For me this concept meant to energize the air, even when one was playing very softly (which Harold was very good at, indeed). In other words to avoid a colorless subtone you must try to "spin" the air to color the sound you are producing to give it expression and carrying power.
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-06-26 18:15
I actually first encountered the term "spin the air" in High School with our Flute section. They were encouraged to do this often. I, at first, took it to mean "play with vibrato" then I learn that it is, as Larry said, intensifying the air.
To elaborate on Larry's point my H.S. Director always referred to color. Always wanting a purple sound. Hence he came up with the idea of spinning the air to achieve this purple sound. But, I'll bet you can spin the air and get any color you want. It is, once again borrowing from Larry, a whole color pallette at your tongue tips.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-06-26 21:05
I think of "spin" as what keeps the line going on a sustained note. Listen to John McCormack's recording of "Il Mio Tesoro" from "Don Giovanni." The long notes have even more forward impetus and energy than the moving ones. The recording is 90 years old, and there's never been anything better.
William Kincaid said that the shape of the line and the energy in the tone are independent of the melody. He would have students play entire cadenzas on a single note and wasn't satisfied until all the music was there.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-06-27 00:43
Enough!
I'm generally tired of our USA political spin.
What are we talking about here? Is there a technique to learn? Or are we just spinning?
Bob Phillips
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2006-06-27 12:05
There is a real technique, Bob. I'm an amateur, like you, so I'll bow to real teachers and pros -- like Ken Shaw and Larry above -- to clarify, refine or alter what I suggest here.
It has to do with how the air enters the mouthpiece, which has impact on the oral cavity and the tongue. The term spin seems to capture the final result, but does little to instruct on the exact configuration/placement of things.
Since the chalameux is the foundation of things, I'd suggest starting there, and I'd suggest very simple studies, such as Langenus BK I, exercises 9 and 10. And instead of blowing the note, think of spinning the tone. When you land on the configuration, you'll know it, for your tone will be resonant, energized and with a vitality and life to it, and will retain this regardless of the dynamic level.
Ken, I see how your mention of a whole cadenza on a single note could have real instructive content, but I don't have a mental picture of what such a "cadenza" would sound like. If Kincaide's exercise lends itself to words, would you expand on it? (Perhaps, you just have to be in the room, though, and hear such being done to obtain a mental picture of it.)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-06-27 13:43
For my own clarification, the spin we are talking about comes from the focusing of the sound with the proper tongue position (high in the back), right?
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2006-06-27 17:16
Tobin,
Tongue high in the back, yes, but I think there is also a greater curvature at the front of it. Can't say for sure, for it is exceedingly difficult to notice exactly how your mouth and tongue are configured. Let your ear be your guide. You'll know it and will be able to reproduce it when you land on it.
Again, pros and teachers will probably have better insight and better instruction than I.
vJoe
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-06-27 17:29
Allowing the body's air column to resonate with the vibrations coming back from the instrument/reed is how the phenomenon was explained to me.
This generates an "excited" sound.
Elusive, huh?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 19:48
There are people who sell a device consisting of twisted vanes (like the fan of a turbofan aircraft engine) which is placed in the air intake duct of an automobile. It is advertised as reducing fuel consumption by "spinning" the air before it mixes with the fuel.
It doesn't work.
Thank you for your attention.
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2006-06-27 21:06
David, I respect you as a musician and technician. But your logic is faulty here:
You argue A is similar to B.
A is demonstrably false, therefore B is false.
Sorry, guy, such logic doesn't work. (If I recall -- from 30+ years ago -- that's argument from tautology.)
vJoe
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 21:17
vJoe,
You are correct, except that I was not even attempting to be logical at all -- I was attempting to make a small joke, which apparently was so small as to be totally invisible.
I shall crawl back into the 'shed now and practice my Baermann........
(Didn't Charlie Parker write "Tautology"? Or am I thinking of some other tune???)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-27 21:28
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> (Didn't Charlie Parker write "Tautology"? Or am I thinking of
> some other tune???)
I think it was "Mixology" but it was written by W.C. Fields (and most recently reissued by Dean Martin) ...GBK
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2006-06-27 22:01
Duh....I'm sorry, David. I thought you were really nixing the very idea of "spinning the tone." If you were, I thought, that's okay, but the argument doesn't work.
You see, I'm old enough to know that not everyone ascribes to the same set of ideas (especially ideas concerning an art), and if someone doesn't that's fine.
And I think GBK is right: it was Mixology.
And I think GBK was right when he spoke against the common wisdom of long tones, favoring intervals instead. But I was so busy with work at that time period, I didn't have a chance to see any rebuttal. Were there any?
vJoe
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 22:17
No problem, vJoe -- I've been told many times (even by family members) that my sense of humor is somewhere out in left field and that it's not always apparent when I'm joking. We tend to get a bit wrapped up in ourselves sometimes here on the BB, so once in a while I try to throw a small monkey wrench into the works to shake things up. This, of course, frequently backfires..............
As for Bird, I was thinking of Ornithology, FWIW.
Go spin them tones, baby!
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-06-27 22:49
It was epistomology, and dealt with prostate disorders.
Bird did not spin his tone. It was shaken, not stirred....all too often.
To spin the sound properly requires a centrifuge.
Does topping it require a centridirge?
Where is that limmerick dude when you need him?
(ducks as GBK and CPW rev up the engines)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: CPW
Date: 2006-06-28 00:38
Spinning a yarn
or spinning a tone
Spinning wheels
got to go home
Spin all ya want
For all you have known
NO ONE HAS SAID
how you DO spin the tone.
So enough of the bull
and stop all the poems
let us hear how it is done
and not just lengthy tomes.
Against the windmills of my mind
The jousting pole splinters
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Author: FDF
Date: 2006-06-28 00:49
Please forgive me, for I have limericked
There was once a clarinetist from Maine,
Who could spin a tune in the rain.
When asked how he did it,
He said, Aw, forget it.
Explaining is such a pain.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-28 01:57
Robert Marcellus could spin.
Leister too, when with Berlin.
Neither mouthpiece nor reed,
Will help you succeed.
Your sound emanates from within.
...GBK
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-06-28 03:48
vjoet: "Tongue high in the back, yes, but I think there is also a greater curvature at the front of it."
The tongue high in the back of the mouth produces a ringing, overtone rich sound. Letting the middle of the tongue descend, and the front of the tongue curve back up to the reed, allows me to maintain that sound while I articulate.
Is this the spun sound that is being discussed?
Thanks Alseg for chiming in with another thought: "Allowing the body's air column to resonate with the vibrations coming back from the instrument/reed is how the phenomenon was explained to me."
How would you increase the amount of vibration in the air within your throat? It's ALREADY vibrating at the frequency of the clarinet, along with all of you nasal cavaties?
Now that I've chimed in, I apologize for contributing in non limmerick verbiage.
Let the rhyming continue!
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Markael
Date: 2006-06-28 12:00
I Googled “Charlie Parker” and mixology OR tautology, and discovered that the Lee Konitz quintet did Tautology.
Regarding spinning the tone, I seem to recall that Ridenour uses some kind of geometric or shape metaphor to describe a good clarinet tone quality. Scanning through his book, I can’t find the reference.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-06-28 15:44
If i mess with my tongue positions, I screw up my already fragile altissimo! BAH.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-06-28 19:53
Proper tongue position makes the altissimo easy!
Gnothi Seauton
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