 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nes
Date: 2006-06-27 08:14
Hi,
I'm wondering if anyone could please post me a link to somewhere which has one of the many cadenza's for the Wolfgang's Clarinet Concerto. I would really apptreciate being able to see one written out.
Thanks in advance
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-06-27 11:07
If you have a copy of the Quintet, the last figure before the final allegro of the last movement is one.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-27 13:25
The Mozart Concerto does not have a cadenza...never had, never will.
It does, however, have areas where an eingang can be played.
Very different than a cadenza ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-06-27 13:29
Gee, several hours have passed and still no clever person has let you know about Eingänge. I'm sure it's just a matter of time...
Nes, unfortunately I don't know of any links. You could try writing one out yourself from a recording, or even better- compose your own!
Paul- are you sure you're not referring to the Larghetto movement of the Quintet, where Mozart writes a little cadenza before the reprise section? (OK, I KNOW it's an Eingang, but most people STILL use the term "cadenza" to describe those things!!) In the final movment just before the final allegro all my editions just have an A half note and a G quarter note, with fermatas. It's a great place to play a small cadenza (YES, I hear you, but can't I just call it a cadenza anyway??!), but most editions won't actually write one out for you there.
Nes, I hope somebody can actually answer your question! :-)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 13:41
Liquorice wrote:
It's a great place to play a small cadenza (YES,
> I hear you, but can't I just call it a cadenza anyway?)
Don't you think that mislabelling a term is akin to "talking down" to someone because you assume they have no education?
When the correct term exists, why not use it? We're all students; we should be happy to learn something new.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-27 13:43
You might want to read 3 early (1981/1982) issues of The Clarinet magazine:
Volume 8 Number 4
Volume 9 Number 1
Volume 9 Number 2
Each issue has an article, showing the different written and published ideas to use in the Mozart Concerto as conceived by Busoni, Ibert and Kritcka .
Or, you can write your own, based on thematic material, style, intervals, etc... of the Concerto.
However, (IMO) less is more .....GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 15:03
Do a search for
eingange
both here and on the Klarinet mailing list (click the search link and add "klarinet mailing list" to the databases to search).
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2006-06-27 15:56
I'm not talking down to anyone.
Recently I listened to an audition as external examiner for a music consevatory. The head of the conservatoire was there, and asked one candidate to play the 2nd movement of the Mozart Concerto "up to and including the cadenza". My point? The term "cadenza" is still in common use for Eingänge. By the way, the head of the consevatoire was speaking in German!
So, what's an Eingang in English?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 16:05
Liquorice wrote:
> My point? The term
> "cadenza" is still in common use for Eingänge. By the way, the
> head of the consevatoire was speaking in German!
Very sad to hear.
>
> So, what's an Eingang in English?
Eingang - we borrow from everyone ...
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2006-06-27 16:14
i just did a search on dictionary.com. neither eingang nor eingange comes up. does it mean cadenza? fermata? little cadenza?
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Author: John25
Date: 2006-06-27 17:32
"Eingang" in German means "entry, or coming". This makes no sense in an English translation. As a musical eingang is not a spot for showing off technique (that's a cadenza), could I suggest a definition - "A short improvised link passage leading to the next idea"?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 17:53
John25 wrote:
> As a musical eingang is not a
> spot for showing off technique (that's a cadenza), could I
> suggest a definition - "A short improvised link passage leading
> to the next idea"?
That agrees in the general with the references I provided. The references describe the specifics.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-06-27 18:25
A question:
How do we know that Mozart intended an Eingang (a simple link passage) rather than a cadenza (a longer, showing-off passage)?
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A linguistic note for the non-German speakers out there:
The singular is Eingang.
The plural is Eingänge.
It is acceptable to write the plural as Eingaenge to avoid using an umlaut.
The forms eingang (no initial capital) and eingange (no such word) are not acceptable - unless you consider it as an English word, when all bets are off.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 18:37
David Peacham wrote:
> A question:
>
> How do we know that Mozart intended an Eingang (a simple link
> passage) rather than a cadenza (a longer, showing-off passage)?
Have you read the references I gave? They're pretty explicit.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-06-27 18:46
Mark, the trouble with the references that you gave is that they state the opinion of Dan Leeson. He does not quote his sources. What I was looking for was a reference to a statement by Mozart, or to a reliable textbook of Mozart's time.
Leeson wrote: "Cadenzas are not for instruments that cannot harmonize with themselves. There is not [sic] cadenza in the clarinet concerto, the horn concerti, the oboe, bassoon, or flute concertos." That is a view that is far from universal in the horn-playing fraternity, at least.
I'm not saying that Leeson is wrong, merely that I would like some evidence. Best of all, evidence that Stadler and Leutgeb (Mozart's horn soloist) did not play cadenzas in these works.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-06-27 19:09
Firstly, I apologize for having erred on the reference above. The "cadenza" to which I refer goes in the second movement on the written Bb that leads to the restatement of the opening theme. THAT "cadenza" I thought had come from some point in the Quintet but now I can't find the music - drat!!
As far as semantics, I always thought any connective device used in a solo instrument to bring us back harmonically to where the composer wishes to return is called a cadenza. Musically, the device is not a flashy device to show of technique but rather to bridge ideas (technical prowess is just an added bonus).
Aren't there definite cadenza points in the oboe concerto, bassoon concerto and horn concertos? Even the great Mozart relied on cheesy devices now and then.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 19:37
David Peacham wrote:
> Mark, the trouble with the references that you gave is that
> they state the opinion of Dan Leeson.
Dan is a Mozart scholar himself with peer reviewed articles in the Mozart-Jahrbuch. I wouldn't call his writings on the subject "opinions" but "well-researched articles".
See http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/DR/DR9.3/DR9.3.Ross.html for instance for more information. Or find "Greenan, April Nash. “The Instrumental Eingang in the Classical Era.” Ph.D. Diss., University of Maryland at College Park, 1997."
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-27 20:04
There are always a few "clues" to help the listener (and performer) determine the difference between an eingang and a cadenza.
The first hint should be that an eingang begins after a dominant seventh chord (a cadenza begins after a tonic chord in 2nd inversion), and the instrument that is to play the melody after the eingang is the same instrument that is to play the eingang. (After a cadenza - it is the accompaniment which almost always plays next)
Secondly, an eingang usually ends a half step before the beginning of the next section of melody. Thus the dominant seventh reference.
Lastly, eingang (eventhough usually improvised on the spot) are rather brief, usually about 15 seconds. Cadenzas, on the other hand, are much longer in time, and can last several minutes...GBK
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-27 20:21
From Groves:
"A short improvisatory passage that leads into a statement of thematic material. While Eingänge have been used by composers from J.S. Bach to Shostakovich, they are most frequently found in the works of Classical composers. Theorists such as Quantz (1752), J.A. Hiller (1780), H.C. Koch (1782–93), Türk (1789), Czerny (1829) and Baillot (1834) described and provided examples of the Eingang, but used different labels to identify it. Some 20th-century scholars use the terms 'lead-in', 'introduction' and 'entry, among others. Eingänge are found in virtually all genres, instrumental and vocal, of the 18th and 19th centuries.
Mozart used the term 'Eingang' in two letters to his father (22 January 1783, 15 February 1783) and in some of his manuscripts. In the manuscript of the Piano Concerto in B k595 he labelled one passage 'Eingang im Rondo' and another 'Cadenza per il Rondo', thus drawing a distinction between an Eingang, which initiates and provides an improvisatory introduction to a phrase, and a cadenza, which embellishes a phrase's final harmonic progression. Mozart's written-out Eingänge (e.g. bar 173 of the finale of his Piano Sonata in D k311) may serve as a guide to his improvisatory style.
Eingänge are usually shorter than cadenzas, may consist of only a few notes, and typically begin on the dominant triad or seventh chord, in contrast to the tonic 6-4 chord from which a cadenza is usually launched. While cadenzas often include preceding thematic material, Eingänge tend to be non-thematic (exceptions include the Eingang at bar 80 of the third movement of Haydn's Oboe Concerto in C h VIIg:C1, and the one Mozart wrote for the third movement of his Piano Concerto in B k450, both of which are thematically related to their respective movements). Some begin at the final chord or note of the previous phrase, thus forming an elision with the new phrase, as in the third movement of Mozart's Piano Sonata in B k333, where an Eingang begins as an extension of the dominant at the end of bar 198; the improvisatory passage prepares and leads into the returning rondo theme at bar 199. Other Eingänge begin independently of the previous phrase, as at bar 287 of the third movement of Haydn's Sinfonia Concertante in B h I:105; in either case, the Eingang momentarily delays and emphasizes the melodic content of the new phrase.
An Eingang may be either written into the score by the composer or left to the invention of the performer. In addition to the compositions cited above, examples of written-out Eingänge include those at bar 131 of the first movement of Haydn's Piano Sonata in E h XVI:49; at bar 75 of the third movement of Beethoven's Quintet in E for piano and wind op.16; and in the third movement of Johann Baptist Vanhal’s Piano Concerto in D op.14, bars 153–9.
Eingänge that the composer has left to the invention of the performer are usually signalled in the score by a fermata. They are found in the rondo movements of most Classical concertos in which, following a contrasting episode, the performer is cued to add an improvisatory passage that leads into and highlights the returning rondo theme. Examples are found in bar 124 of the third movement of Haydn's Trumpet Concerto in E h VIIe:l; at bar 164 of the finale of Mozart's Flute Concerto in G; and at bar 32 of the finale of Carl Friedrich Zelter’s Viola Concerto in E. An example of a signaled Eingang in the vocal repertory occurs in Despina's aria 'In uomini, in soldati' in Mozart's Così fan tutte, where Mozart placed an oversized fermata over each part at bar 20. During the Classical era, composers occasionally placed an oversized or wide fermata in the score clearly to indicate the addition of improvised ornamentation. In the passage just cited, Despina supplies an Eingang that prolongs the dominant harmony of bar 20 while providing an ornamental introduction to the following phrase.
The practice of improvising an Eingang before the statement of thematic material probably developed during the early 17th century and, as with other performing practices, then became a compositional technique. Early occurrences of written-out Eingänge are seen, for example, before the ritornello theme in the third movement of Bach's Violin Concerto in E bwv1042, at bars 94 and 143. In Handel's Organ Concerto in D minor hwv 309 the composer marked six places for improvisatory passages to be added by the soloist prior to the statement of thematic material. For example, following the cadence at bar 29 of the second movement, Handel wrote the words 'ad libitum' in the score, directing the soloist to provide an improvised passage prior to the entrance of the fixed thematic material. Later in the same movement, at bar 62, the circumstances are repeated: following the cadence, the soloist is cued to add a passage of his or her own design that leads into the returning theme. Having flourished in the streamlined phrases and clear rhetoric of the Classical style, the Eingang became absorbed by the overlapping phrase structures of 19th-century music. Nevertheless, composers continued to use it as a means of emphasizing thematic material; later examples include the written-out Eingänge at bars 132–43 of the third movement of Brahms’s Piano Concerto no.1 in D minor; at bars 143–8 of the first movement of Richard Strauss’s Oboe Concerto; and at the beginning of the fourth movement of Shostakovich’s Violin Concerto no.1, op.99."
BIBLIOGRAPHY
P.M.F. Baillot: L'art du violon (Paris, 1834; Eng trans., 1991)
O. Jonas: 'Improvisation in Mozarts Klavierwerken', MJb 1965–6, 176–81
J.E. Smiles: Improvised Ornamentation in Late Eighteenth-Century Music: an Examination of Contemporary Evidence (diss., Stanford U., 1969)
P. Badura-Skoda: 'Ein authentischer Eingang zum Klavierkonzert in B-Dur, KV 595?', MJb 1971–2, 76–80
R. Levin: 'Improvisation and Embellishment in Mozart Piano Concertos', Musical Newsletter, iv (1974), 3–14
F.K. Grave: 'On Punctuation and Continuity in Mozart’s Piano Concertos', Piano Quarterly, xxiv (1976), 20–25
P. Badura-Skoda: Kadenzen, Eingänge, und Auszierungen zu Klavierkonzerten von Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (Kassel, 1986)
W. Rehm: 'Der Eingang zum 3. Satz des B-Dur-Klavierkonzerts KV 595 ist authentisch! Mozarts Kadenzen-Autograph bringt Klarheit', MISM, xxxiv (1986), 35–40
W. Fetsch: 'Cadenzas in the Mozart Concertos', Clavier, xxx (1991), 13–17
D. Franklin: 'The Fermata as Notational Convention in the Music of J.S. Bach', Convention in Eighteenth- and Nineteenth-Century Music: Essays in Honor of Leonard G. Ratner, ed. W.J. Allanbrook, J.M. Levy and W.P. Mahrt (New York, 1992), 345–81
R. Levin: 'Improvised Embellishments in Mozart’s Keyboard Music', EMc, xx ( 1992), 221–33
A. Greenan: The Instrumental Eingang in the Classical Era (diss., U. of M.)
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-06-27 20:28
Mark, I know who Leeson is. The fact that he publishes academic articles means that he should be especially aware of the need to quote his sources.
Leeson writes:
"A cadenza is always introduced with a fermata and a sustained
tonic chord in the second inversion; i.e., the fifth is in the bass."
"An eingang [sic] (German: lead in, plural eingange [sic]) is introduced by a
dominant 7th chord."
"There is not [sic] cadenza in the clarinet concerto, the horn concerti,..."
I have just downloaded a score of the Mozart Horn Concerto #4 in Eb. The music comes to a fermata on a chord containing Eb, G and Bb, with Bb in the bass. That is a second inversion of the tonic. The next written chord is also Eb, in root position. There is no written dominant seventh chord at all, but a rest in the orchestral parts.
Now we can interpret that in two ways. If we believe Leeson, there is no cadenza, but maybe it is intended as an Eingang. It is unclear where the dominant seventh comes from. If we believe the horn-playing fraternity, it is a cadenza, and the strings (or continuo if used) are expected to provide a dominant seventh chord under the soloist's final trill.
I know which interpretation makes more sense to me.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-06-28 00:57
A surprisingly interesting (though not terribly historical) cadenza for the 2nd movement of the Mozart is in the Rubank Concert and Contest collection. It's actually pretty good if you are playing that movement by itself. If you're playing all three movements there's enough fireworks to keep the audience engaged. Plus, the 2nd movement is so beautiful that it really doesn't need much more.
I use the riff that Marcellus and Szell recorded with Cleveland....my all-time favorite clarinet recording.
-Randy
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