 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2006-06-27 12:11
(Disclaimer - I am maker of the Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
Thought that I would ask although I have my own bias and penchant for musical purity - what is your opinion on using a "C" clarinet for oboe parts in a pinch when a decent oboe player is not available? Finding the latter seems to be a great problem for many small bands and orchestras. I love the sound of the oboe, played well, and it is hard to compare it to the clarinet. A good "C" clarinet also has a beautiful sound but very much different than the oboe but possibly different enough from the Bb to make it work? When will it work, when will it not work? How about a Floboe - Flute?
L. Omar Henderson
Post Edited (2006-06-27 19:42)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-06-27 12:24
I find a soprano sax can sound more like an oboe than any other instrument. But finding a good player can be difficult.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-06-27 13:21
Feeling as I do about the saxophone, I find myself reluctantly in agreement with Morrigan. The clarinet does not have an overtone series remotley similar to oboe. Therefore the tone color can never come close. The soprano sax is closer, of course one would have to make sure the soprano sax is played softly enough not to overpower the part. Other than that, if you just need notes, sure, anything will do, even a clarinet.
..........Paul Aviles
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2006-06-27 13:33
As far as community bands and orchestras, it's better to have the wrong instrument covering a part than to have nobody covering it. I do see a couple problems that don't have so much to do with the artistic impression as with the logistics. Mainly, it could be a hard sell to get one of the clarinet players to buy a second instrument that would only be played if the oboe didn't show up. Also, the band would loose a first section player to cover the oboe, and they can be at a premium. Most community bands don't have a lot of second section folks who can step up to the oboe stand, play the music cold and put in a good performance.
I think where this could be more useful would be in school bands. If no students signed up for oboe that season, the school could have a C clarinet available to cover. It would be nice to have a soprano sax for that occasion too, then the director could choose between which section had a player to spare.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-06-27 13:34
Hi,
I agree with the soprano sax as the possible substitue for oboe in the situations outlined above. One thing I have been doing is transcribing a lot of Bach works for clarinet/alto sax with piano/organ and plan to do a number of Bach oboe works for soprano sax and keyboard. The range is just about the same, the fingerings are quite similar, and some of the tonal colors very compatible.
If you want an opportunity to hear the soprano sax at its best, check out Branford Marsalis on Romances for Saxophone. Priceless.
HRL
PS How about the Sopboe!
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-06-27 14:56
In a community orchestra in Napa, CA, I encountered a sopo sax dubbing the English horn line, and it was pretty wonderful.
Find a vintage recording of Frank Weir on soprano sax, things like The Shoemaker's Shop, Happy Wanderer --for a sound unlike that of Kenny G's.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2006-06-27 15:01
I've played entire concert band gigs sightreading the oboe book up a tone on Bb soprano sax. It works better than anything else, IMO.
My bassoon buddy and I often refer to the baritone sax as the "combat bassoon", since it can stand up to a concert band better. I'd suggest a similar term for the soprano sax.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 15:05
What would happen if one plugged an oboe reed on top of a (C) clarinet?
I could engineer conversion kits and make millions...
--
Ben
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 15:14
I agree with the consensus that a soprano sax can be a suitable oboe substitute, having done it myself in a pop band recording session. With the appropriate whiny, nasal tonal approach (think Kenny G, but not as disgusting) a soprano sax can be made to sound remarkably like a typical mediocre oboe...
![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Clarinetcola
Date: 2006-06-27 15:48
>what would happen if one plugged an oboe reed on top of a (C) clarinet?
it'll still sound close to a clarinet, as it still carries a cylindral bore. I live in Hong Kong and have easy access to chinese traditional instruments, including guanzi, which is something like what Ben described. A bassoon sized reed plugged into a cylindral bore instrument. It sounds like a honky clarinet...
Nathan
Post Edited (2006-06-27 15:48)
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Author: D
Date: 2006-06-27 16:51
Merlin, funny you should say that about the 'combat bassoon'.
I was always under the impression that one reason for the invention of the sax was so that you didn't have to march with a bassoon in a military band, but could still have a bass reed section. Well, I was in London the other week (pouring with rain too) and they were rehersing for the Queens birthday. Marching up and down nr St James park (red coats with huge black buzbees) in the rain. Most amusing. But what shocking me was that they were marchin bassoons. (which must have been filling up with rain), but HOW were they not biting off the reed?! ,mystery!
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2006-06-27 17:39
I'm neither a director nor a composer.
I have no problem doing limited and well justified substitutions such as what Dr Henderson suggested, either with the clarinet or a soprano saxophone. Since it's not common for anyone in a typical band to own a soprano, and since it seems that lead clarinetists in typical bands tend to be strong players, it makes more sense to let them play the type of exposed part the oboe usually recieves if a soprano saxophone is not available.
I do not condone arbitrary substitutions due to a student having the wrong instrument or an idle desire to haul something into the band that simply does not belong.
-JfW
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-06-27 17:41
Prior to the advent of the sax horn systems invented by Sax, bassoons were routinely part of marching bands used by military organizations. However, the only group that I've seen with bassoons recently was the "trotting" band of the Italian Berglesari.
These were originally light troops that did everything at the double quick, including their participation in parades. They were known by their black feathered plumes worn on their helmets. Most remarkable of all, the band "double quick" timed with the best of them while playing, and with at least four bassoon players performing the time that I saw them.
(As they were Italian, I'd imagine that the bassoons being used were of the French (Buffet) system.)
If you don't believe me, there's a way for you to see it yourself. You can see this being done at the beginning of the old movie Roman Holiday, if you want to seek it out.
Now, I said that they were playing, but I didn't say how well.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-27 18:51
I agree the soprano sax has a sound more in keeping with an oboe, but the player would have to be able to transpose the music by sight, or have time to take the music home and transpose it since the sop. sax is in Bb and the oboe is in C. Sometimes this is a problem with community and small band/orchestras. Also, many soprano saxophone players are not good at playing in tune--if they have a cheap instrument it may be a BIG problem.
I used to play my C clarinet sometimes to fill in for the oboe--but found I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as playing 1st clarinet. Happily, we now have 2 very excellent oboe players!! And, I will agree that the C clarinet can sound quite nice, but really doesn't sound anything like an oboe.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-06-27 19:24
I just played the second oboe part to Mozart's Piano Concerto No.20, KV 466 a couple of weeks ago on my Ridenour C clarinet. It's a small community group, and we only have one oboe player this year. There are no clarinet parts for this piece, so I offered to play second oboe rather than sit out.
The director was happy to have me play it, even if it didn't really sound anything like an oboe.
Sue
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 19:43
In a similar vein, our high school orchestra had only one bassoonist (a good one, though) and for three years I played the second bassoon parts on bass clarinet. I only got hit by a couple of flying tomatoes during concerts; generally the audience neither noticed nor gave a hoot.
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2006-06-27 20:07
Mozart once wrote in a letter that the day after the premier of one of his operas he heard people in the street singing it. He was delighted.
I wrote once that from this we can probably deduct that if Mozart were today to hear a Gondileer in Venice singing one of his arias with an accordian, he'd be delighted. For that, a real purist castigated me and the statement for being completely conjecture. However, the purist was wrong. Though he may be a scholar, he has failed to understand the person, Mozart.
This is a round-about way of saying: Composers like their music heard. If it is a matter of substitution of instrumentation versus silence, I think most composers would opt for the substitution. The music abstract exists independent of the particular instrumentation. (Witness how frequently composers re-arrange for other instrumentation.) When I hear Toscanni conduct the Bach Toccata and Fugue, I am hearing the Toccata and Fugue, though in instrumentation far different from the organ. I think Bach would be delighted, for he'd rather it be heard than not heard.
Oboe on the C Clarinet? Sure, if oboe isn't available.
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Author: Lobo
Date: 2006-06-27 20:21
The best substitute for the missing oboe is the instrument whose part has the oboe cues in it.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-06-27 20:24
Well said Vjoet, I am with you.
OT, did Mozart ever write a piece of any form for guitar?
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Author: ClariTone
Date: 2006-06-27 20:29
In my high school band, the oboe player was awwful, and conveniently the part with the solo was cued in the first trumpet (which used a straight mute). It sounded just fine.
Clayton
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-27 20:35
OT, did Mozart ever write a piece of any form for guitar?
If he had access to a Stratocaster I think he might have been tempted...
--
Ben
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