 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clari-hack
Date: 2006-06-22 22:10
hi! i have just come into a swell buffet bass clarinet, serial number 19xxx. this baby is old! 50 plus years??!! it has been thoroughly gone over by my tech who has given it a complete repad. he also installed a floor peg for me. i've spent the last 2 hours playing this new (to me) horn!
it is a low e flat bass. i just finished a gig last weekend using a friend's newer buffet low e flat bass, model 1180, i think. and mine just blows it away. the sound is sooo sweet and even. response is excellent across the break (i would guess because of the dual register keys) and far up above the staff.
my only complaint is that the low e flat is a bit stuffy. is there any solution for that?? also ... are there any techs building low c extensions for these older e flat horns.
i am a sax player by nature and have a generic c star mouthpiece. any recommendations beyond this?? i guess i'll search the board to find out>
thanks in advance,
steve
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-06-22 22:28
Congrats on finding this old beauty, care to share a photo with us? Stuffy bell note (Eb) may be improved by your tech, but could be the nature of the design, maybe a different strength of reed might help? You will get a lot of advise regarding mouthpieces, some of the most popular ones are Selmer, Vandoren, Roger Garrett, Clark Fobes, Walter Grabner, then there are Lomax, Pyne, Behn, etc......
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Author: clari-hack
Date: 2006-06-23 00:36
Attachment: buffet2.jpg (145k)
Thanks Basset Horn. A freind of mine is playing a Bay on his Bass Clarinet, another freind a Fobes and they both sound great.
Here's a link to a pic!
http://teacherweb.com/NY/JohnJay/Kieley/buffet2.jpg
Post Edited (2006-06-23 00:37)
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-06-23 05:50
Great looking horn! one thing to consider when trying mouthpiece is how comfortable it complements your embouchure and structure of your mouth/jaw. The most comfortable mouthpiece that I have played is a Pomaric crystal mouthpiece, the shape of the beak and the buffle height somehow justs feel right in my mouth. I guess you gotta try it to get this right. Good luck!
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-06-23 12:53
You could get the bell altered....but I'd just mess with playing the Eb better first.
What about low C extensions....I'm curious to know who makes them!
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-23 13:49
Re: Stuffy low-Eb: Very often the low-Eb bell key doesn't open high enough; the solution is to provide more clearance for the operating lever on the lower part of the lower joint. Sometimes this can be as simple as thinning the cork or felt bumper underneath that lever, but more often than not one has to adjust the entire lower joint 'spatula stack' and/or actually grind/file a depression below that linkage to allow it to sit deeper in the body.
Re: Low-C extensions: Steve Fox used to offer them (and possibly still does), but they are/were expensive and the waiting list, as I understand it, is very long. You could always inquire, anyway. I've made a couple of extensions for my own instruments and am making a third one now, but these are relatively crude prototype-quality gadgets and I'm not interested in building one for a customer -- definitely not "ready for prime time".
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-06-23 15:06
Dave Spiegelthal wrote:
"Re: Stuffy low-Eb: Very often the low-Eb bell key doesn't open high enough; the solution is to provide more clearance for the operating lever on the lower part of the lower joint."
Unless I flunk physics 101, the low Eb bell key is closed when you play low Eb! Therefore the key opening is totally irrelevant to clari-hack's question.
(Shame on you Dave, I hope we're still friends.)
I started my professional career on a Buffet bass just like the one discussed here (bought it from George Weber of the Chicago Symphony) and it is still being used by a local doubler here in Northern Virginia. The stuffy low Eb is something you'll just have to learn to live with, as is the sharp third line B (and the non-ergonomic keywork). It is, indeed, a beautiful sounding instrument for all of its flaws, and I hope you will enjoy it.
Re: Aftermarket low-C extensions; my best advice-- fuggetaboutit! No matter how skilled the maker is, it is still likely to be a makeshift, and very likely to adversely affect the rest of the instrument. You might cite as an exception Dennis Smylie's (ex Mazzeo) low Bb extension, and it is certainly a notable instrument, with the addition been built by Verne Q. Powell. I suspect that the labor cost for having that kind of work done to your Buffet would easily cost more than purchasing a new Buffet or Selmer low C instrument.
Selmer C* is probably used by more pro bass clarinetists than any other mouthpiece. If you have a good vintage one you might have a treasure; you might want to have it tweaked by a good mouthpiece tech (but don't mess with the tip opening).
Post Edited (2006-06-23 15:26)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-23 16:56
ACK! You caught me red-handed this time, Larry! Next time I'd better stop and think before typing...............
Sorry, all.
Never mind....................
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: clari-hack
Date: 2006-06-23 17:58
Thanks to all who posted. I was pretty sure the extension idea was a pie in the sky idea...but being sort of new to the bass clarinet world, i figured I'd ask.
The new buffet I recently played had what I would describe as a resonance hole in the bell below the e flat tone hole.
That is the one thing I would describe as superior on the newer buffet bass...the low e flat just sang on the newer horn. on mine...well it's just stuffy. It is getting clearer the more i practice and play with reeds...but it has a decidedly different character than the adjacent low tones.
Larry... yes the middle b is sharp, but i find the ergonomics of the keywork not so bad! I found that it is a bit easier to get around than the recent 1180 I just borrowed from a friend. the reach for the left AND right hand pinky keys was really awkward for me. No nearly so on the old Buffet. It's also cool that this old Buffet has a left hand e flat!
I can't put this thing down. It is a joy to play!
Steve
Post Edited (2006-06-23 18:04)
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-06-23 19:15
Steve, why not put your friend's Buffet bell onto yours, if it fits and see if the low Eb sounds better? If it does, then you have the option of buying a new bell, or, consult a good technician and contemplate the idea of drilling a hole in your old bell and see how that works : )
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Author: clari-hack
Date: 2006-06-23 19:26
Hmmmmm. I'll consider that! Well, I'll consider borrowing my buddy's bell... I am not sure I'll consider drilling a hole in my bell....YIKES!
Steve
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-23 19:35
Steve,
Ain't no big thang to drill a hole in the bell -- I do it frequently (mostly with soprano clarinets, but have done a few basses too). Remember, such surgery is reversible if it turns out to make things worst (which is unlikely) --- holes can be patched or plugged, partially or completely.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-06-23 21:23
Walter Grabner has made low D extensions for bass clareints, which give a concert low C. I'm not sure whether he does them regularly, but it could solve the stuffy low Eb problem for you.
Consider, though, whether you really need it. The low Eb is there to let you play parts written for bass clarinet in A (mostly Wagner). How often do you play a Wagner part than has an exposed (written) low E?
Kalmen Opperman says your model is the best sounding one Buffet made. I have one just like it, and I played it against their new models. The old one has a distinctly better tone, for me as well as for you.
Ken Shaw
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Author: clari-hack
Date: 2006-06-23 21:39
Well, I will not be using this bass clarinet for anything other than pit orchestra work. I just have gotten tired of borrowing friends' basses! Probably not as tired as they were lending theirs to me!
Pit orchestra music DOES from time to time go below low E flat. Not so often that I am looking for a low C bass clarinet.
I am not surprised that Kal Opperman thinks this is the most desirable vintage Buffet Bass. If you go to Stephen Freeman's page on the New York Philharmonic's web-site, he writes about his vintage Buffet Bass clarinet that he purchased from Leon Lester, serial number 19230 (221 serial numbers away from mine!). He also speaks about the modifications Hans Moennig made to his instrument, including the removable low C extension.
cut and paste this link to read about it!
http://nyphil.org/meet/orchestra/index.cfm?page=profile&personNum=107
Steve
Post Edited (2006-06-23 21:41)
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Author: Chetclarinet
Date: 2006-06-25 18:38
This is just a note to say that the 1180 Buffet Bass you were comparing your vintage instrument to, probably is the mid-level modern Buffet bass clarinet. The R-13, Prestige bass clarinets have a different bell configuration and are far superior instruments to the 1180. The vintage Buffet bass clarinets do have that sweet sound that many modern instruments have a hard time matching, particularly in the lower register. However, I personally feel that the modern Selmer 37, Buffet Prestige , etc. instruments are certainly as a rule easier to play in tune, are more resonsive and have faster key mechanisms.
Chester Rowell
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Author: graham
Date: 2006-06-26 11:33
Stuffy low e flat may be due to failure to make full closure of the E flat pad. It can then sound a bit wheezy.
Extensions can be made and don't necessarily adversely affect the rest of the instrument. I had one done and the contrary was the effect on the rest of the instrument. But you may not be able to achieve reliable full automation of the lower keys and there is always the issue of carrying around a spare part (unless you are willing also to buy a bigger case).
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