 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cpark
Date: 2006-06-21 17:24
I heard the the Tosca clarinet was designed to work best as a greenline clarinet. I would believe it as I know a number of well respected clarinetist who have a pair of Greenline Toscas, and prefer them over wood.
If this is the case, what is driving the price so high? I assume that the greenline material is much much cheaper than the high quality dense wood used for prestige and tosca clarinets.
Chris
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-21 18:29
The Greenline clarinet is "... made of M'Pingo sawdust and a patented mixture of carbon fiber and epoxy glue that is heat-treated and placed in a press to give it the density of whole wood..."
That, plus the retooling needed for manufacture and the ammortization of those associated costs would have a distinct factor on the price...GBK
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-06-21 18:39
Chris,
Having had the chance to play on a colleague's greenline Tosca recently, I can confirm that this is one very nice instrument! I suspect that the cost of the materials of a fine instrument is only a fraction of the expense of producing it. Just as a violin maker's wood (although very important)represents a small part of the worth of the instrument, the cost of highly skilled craftsmanship (and especially with all of the fringe benefits that a French employer is obliged to fund) and the many man-hours of painstaking tuning and fitting that distinguish a super-premium item has to be a major part of the manufacturing expense.
Many of us professionals in the US have deferred the ultimate expense by having their new instruments "customized" by master technicians like the Brannens or Marc Jacobi. Having moved this "fit and finish" process back to the atelier is not a bad idea, and certainly gives the initial purchaser a lot better chance to assess an instrument's ultimate quality before purchase.
Plus, I assume Buffet is padding the price a bit, in as much as this is a "Better-than-Prestige" item! Compared to the price of a Heckel bassoon it's a steal!
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Author: cpark
Date: 2006-06-21 18:56
does anyone have any insight into how greenline clarinets are made differently than wood horns? are they run through the same machines? What qualities make it work better on the Tosca? Is it a different composite material than say greenline R13 or festivals?
Chris
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Author: sdr
Date: 2006-06-22 01:41
I have heard that one reason for the price of Greenline instruments is that they must be made a little more carefully than the wood instruments. If somebody slips reaming a wood R13, it becomes an E11. There is no stepdown for a Greenline with a production flaw.
-sdr
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2006-06-22 02:31
Sorry sdr, that's complete nonsense! More likely scenario is that if someone slips making an R13, it's ground up and used to make Greenline fabric. The E11 is made hundreds of miles away in Germany, and uses a different body configuration altogether. The E13 is made in France, and is considered to be an R13 "second". And do Greenlines, in fact, cost more than conventional blackwood clarinets of the same series?
Good to know that even Harvard is not immune to "Urban Legends!"
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-06-22 04:01
"And do Greenlines, in fact, cost more than conventional blackwood clarinets of the same series?"
Usually the price is about (or exactly) the same.
By the way, I've tried these models: RC, RC Prestige, Festival, and Tosca, in both wood and greenline, and could barely feel any difference if at all. If anything I usually liked the wood ones slightly better (maybe not because they were wood though, just better). I personally don't like the Tosca (the keywork) regardless of its material.
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2006-06-22 16:39
According to my Buffet catalog, prices for Granadilla and Greenline, for the same model, are exactly, the same.
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Author: Francois Kloc
Date: 2006-06-23 15:27
does anyone have any insight into how greenline clarinets are made differently than wood horns? are they run through the same machines? What qualities make it work better on the Tosca? Is it a different composite material than say greenline R13 or festivals?
Chris
Dear Chris,
The GreenLine are made the same way as we make the wood ones exept that we need to use different tools mainly made of Carbite because the material is a lot harder to cut and regular stainless steel tools will loose their cut after one or two passes in the instruments. The tuning, bore reaming, padding and final adjustment is done by the same workers who make the Tosca wood. The only big difference is when they ream the bore it really is hard on your arms and you have to be extra carefful with this process.
Hope this help,
Musically Yours,
Francois Kloc
President & CEO
Buffet Crampon USA, Inc.
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Author: cpark
Date: 2006-06-23 20:21
Francois Kloc,
Thank you so much for your answer.
What I have actually heard is that the Tosca was designed from the start as a Greenline horn and that the wood version was kind of an afterthought. Is this correct?
Sincerely,
Chris
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