 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Susan Eileen
Date: 2006-06-14 00:40
Has anyone mail ordered a clarinet from WWBW?
Specific Buffet R13 Bb -- Would love to hear your experience.
Quality of each instrument -- that different? Did you buy it? Had you tried others? Did you have help or make the decision yourself, etc., etc.,
I have tried 3 and have a 4th on the way.
Thanks
Susan
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-14 01:01
Are you saying you've tried 3 from wwandbw and you have a 4th on the way from them? You didn't get them all at the same time so you could do a side-by-side comparison?
I've bought many clarinets from wwandbw when I couldn't find a particular model from my local dealer. It is best to have several at a time and do the side-by-side trial. I always talk to someone in the clarinet dept. and tell them I'm very particular and please have it checked before it's sent out to me.
You might also consider Muncy Winds (http://www.muncywinds.com). They have top quality instruments and are great to work with.
It gets expensive to have these instruments shipped out to you (a big charge on your credit card), but it is worth it if you aren't able to go in person. There are often big differences in the same model instrument and you're going to want the best you can get.
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Author: chumbucket804
Date: 2006-06-14 01:26
I bought my R13 from WWBW. They sent me three and I tried all of them out with the same mouthpiece/reed combo. I sounded okay on two of them and great on the third. I had a private lesson with all three and my lesson teacher agreed on the third one. We then tried experimenting with different barrels/bells from all three horns to get the best set up possible. I was very pleased with the clarinet I bought and had no problems with WWBW. Good luck with yours!
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Author: DougR
Date: 2006-06-14 01:58
I had basically the same experience as Chumbucket--got three R-13s from WWBW, tried em out, one clearly stunk, one was basically mediocre, one was really really good, and that's the one I got. It was very very easy and at the time it was the lowest price I could find for a silver-plated R-13.
I did talk to them ahead of time, & asked them to ship only fresh stock, and I think I had to wait a few weeks for a new shipment to come in to WWBW.
If I were doing it now, I might go with Muncy Winds, simply because they put so much care into what they do.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-06-14 02:10
I've ordered several personal instuments from ww&bw - 3 or 4 in the past few years.
Plus I've checked out numerous R13's from ww&bw for my students - we have 3 shipped, then spend an hour or more going over them, picking out the best one, and returning the other 2. Same as chum said - we switch the barrels and bells around, to find the best combo. I just went through that process last weekend with one of my students.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2006-06-14 02:40
I have purchased a couple of R-13's from WWBW. One was a used instrument they thought was pretty good and it was. The other I bought at their store in South Bend, which is about a 3 hour drive from here. I spent a productive day there trying out instruments and got a good one.
If you are within striking distance of another major dealer, in NYC, or wherever, and their price is not that far from WWBW, then you should consider going there. Money is always an issue, but so is time. DougR's experiece above might just as well have been that he got three duds, traded them back, and got three more duds. The drive in allows you to play on more instruments all at once. Furthermore, if there is a warrantee issue, you can drive it in and not have to ship it.
WWBW will only give you three instruments at a time. Their rooms are fairly nice but, just like school practice rooms, you may end up with a trumpeter blasting in the room next to you. This is a disadvantage of going to them.
Definitely bring a friend - both of you can trade off playing and listening until you find an instrument you like. If you have instruments you both don't like, your assistant can take them and wait in line for replacements while you spend more time with the one that might work.
Some people have reported that places like this get picked over, and that can be the case. Unless their volume is big enough to change over stock fairly frequently, you may find only other peoples' rejects. This probably won't be the case with the larger dealers.
Don't go an a Saturday or a work holiday - the place will be very busy, and you may well spend all day and not play on very many instruments.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-06-14 13:21
Before I knew enough about clarinets to know that I needed to try more than one....I ordered one Buffet R13 from woodwind brasswind. It arrived two days ahead of schedule and I was very pleased. At first, it didn't sound any different to me than my B12; but, after about three weeks the R13 broke in and I was in heaven.
Unfortunately, I have had problems with this clarinet. All three tenons had to be sanded down so that they would fit! Note: one I had done months ago and two within the past 3 weeks.
Good luck finding the clarinet that you like!
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-06-14 13:22)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-06-14 15:52
fwiw , more than 1/2 of the new buffets i've seen in the last few years need the tenons sanded. the new horns are fine, then a few hours of playing time later, the tenons are too tight. which suggests something about the quality, aging process, and stability of the wood lately. this issue seems to pop up regardless of where you get the insturment - e.g., its not just a ww&bw problem.
we've hade several other threads on this subject recently. i now routinely keep a toolbox with sandpaper at the schools where i teach. nusiance, you'd think after spending $2000 you wouldn't need to mess around with sandpaper, but such is reality.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-14 16:01
I'm in the process of checking out a new supplier of instruments. I haven't gotten the first order yet, but he seems promising. If everything goes well and I feel he is a good source for clarinets, I'll post here on the bboard about him. His prices are really good--below wwandbw and muncy. So, we'll see. I'll let you know within the next couple of weeks.
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2006-06-14 16:10
What happens to all the returned clarinets? They must get shipped out to the next customer requesting to try them, then the cycle continues.... I hate to be the guy at the back of the line trying all the rejects.
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Author: bufclar
Date: 2006-06-14 17:29
I would also consider ordering some clarinets from Walter Grabner. He sets them up and only has top quality clarinets in stock. His prices are great and he is great to work with.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-06-14 18:01
Ditto for comments about Walter Grabner.
I got my Bb R13 from him.
Other board members have been laudatory.
One got that (new) Vintage A that I was drooling over and posted some nice comments.
I wish Buffet did not call it "Vintage"....poor terminology and confusing esp. when looking at things on that auction site that shall not be mentioned.
Perhaps the model should be called Testarossa or Diablo or at least
something that dovetails with Tosca.....although Pagliacci does not come across just right.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-14 18:23
I've never gotten an instrument from Walter but have bought several mouthpieces from him and he is an exceptional human being. He's very particular (as am I) about his workmanship and I'm sure he would be a good source for instruments. Next time I buy a professional Buffet I'll get it from him.
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Author: Susan Eileen
Date: 2006-06-14 21:18
Dear Fellow Musicican:
Thanks for all the comments. Keep them coming.
I indeed ordered and received 3 to try. One had a problem w/ a key. It would be simple repair w/ cork and they would pay for it if I were to select that clarinet. They are sending another so that is why I said 4 to try. I think good PR on their part. Looks like two have NEVER been used so I don't I am trying rejects. I think one could go crazy with too many and never find the perfect one --- it could be a never ending search. :-)
I am and have working w/ the person I study w/ and am trying differet barrels, bells, mouthpieces, reeds, etc. Thank you all for that advice. Please keep it coming.
This is a big step to retire my friend -- my 1962 Bb Buffet -- It has been well used and getting a bit stressed from the years of use. It will be retired to a good spot in my home and be used at outside jobs. A is not used as much so will keep it around a bit more.
Susan
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-14 22:16
.....but, you're not that far away from the showroom!
Bob Draznik
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-06-15 02:57
BobD, it's just her Internet Service Provider that's near the showroom. My ISP shows up as Southfield, MI quite frequently although I'm in Minneapolis.
Edit: And now it's showing in PA...the fun of having a variable ISP # and no money to get a static one!
xoxo,
Katrina
Post Edited (2006-06-15 02:58)
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Author: hartt
Date: 2006-06-15 04:48
Aside from mail order/walk-in retail companies, there are individuals who, for a nominal fee, hand select Buffet clarinets at either their Regional Distributor, the Jacksonville, FL facility or, have clarinets sent to them.
I can echo Brenda’s assessment of Walter. I tried a Vintage model A. It was good, real good but it wasn’t better than my 1959 R13 set up by Hans Moening. So, I passed on it. I will, however, say that working with Walter was a pleasure. The clarinet had been ‘gone over’ and ‘set up’. The keywork was in perfect adjustment. It was complete with factory paperwork, swab, care instructions, and all tenon corks appeared to be ‘clean and fresh’.
After Walter received it back, he thanked me for the opportunity to work with him. That level of professionalism, appreciation and humanity is a rare commodity today.
By like token, I also test tried a ‘hand selected’ Vintage Bb from another source. Again, it was good but not as good as my 1974 R13. This clarinet was without any paperwork, had traces of dog hair in the case sleeve and the tenon corks appeared as though the clarinet had been assembled/disassembled numerous times. Despite being told it was set up by a nationally recognized tech, the keyword was out of adjustment on the RH ‘cluster keys’ Upon returning it to the seller, I was chastised for not buying it and berated in my level of playing and future playing level.
I also know that Ted Oien , Principal in the Detroit SO, (born/raised Tucsonan) also provides a ‘selling service’. In speaking with Ted, he mentioned that he does not ‘stock’ them but rather will ultimately find one at Buffet. I say ultimately because he mentioned that being as particular as he is, it may take 2-3 months to find one acceptable (in view of what the buyer is looking for in sound, tonal color, resistance, etc.) He further mentioned that Intonation is paramount. He does not believe in buying a clarinet and then doing tone hole work with additional undercutting or epoxy. His fee for this selection service is very competitive.
What I did do, is keep my set and buy a Chadash Bb
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-15 22:09
I, too, had a bad experience with pet hair inside the case of an instrument I got from a highly respected professional player--not Walter. It was sickening and I think it was cat hair--not sure--but it was white. The instrument was dirty with hand prints and looked like it had been used for at least a year. It had been represented as new. Ugh. Never again.
One I bought from Woodwind and Brasswind last year on clearance had to be taken to the shop to be repaired before I could play it. This was after they were asked to send it to their shop before sending it out to me. However, after having it set up by my tech guy I decided to keep it. It's a great instrument and I saved a bundle on it due to the clearance price--even with the repair from my tech. But, what a disappointment when I opened the case and tried to play it.
I have the highest respect for those who respect their customers. As I said, my next one is coming from Walter.
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Author: hartt
Date: 2006-06-15 22:53
Brenda.......again, I echo your comments.......in my initial post reply, I was kind.
Yes, pet hair in the case sleeve and case, finger smudges on the body parts and keywork...........and also represented as new.
I waited an an additional 3 days for it to be shipped as it was being set up by a nationally respected tech. As previously mentioned, the keywork was out of asjustment. Later, in contacting this tech, he knew nothing of this clarinet.
In my conversations and emails with Walter, he displayed a total customer satisfaction posture.
I'll add, that when Walter ships a clarient, he includes a a humidifer. It's a plastic baggie containing a sponge. The bag is pierced to allow moisture throughout the case.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2006-06-16 04:57
I had a great experience buying clarinets from Walter. He took the time to search his stock for a B flat and an A that were very similar (I don't like saying matched). He gave me a disscount on them since I bought two new ones and he also sold my old clarinets. It was a very easy experience, I got two great horns (nikel plate A and silver Plate B-flat). They were set up perfectly and if I wanted, I could have had him put cork pads on the upper joints before he sent them.
I think Walter is one of the really great people out there right now. I think he makes wonderful mouthpieces and the way he treats his customers is a breath of fresh air. He knows a lot yet he never, ever displays any ego and is always just really great to work with. I can't say enough about him. I should also add that I am playing his new Chicago mouthpiece which was made with input from Larry Combs and Julie Derouche. I'm not trying to make a blanket statement that this mouthpiece is the best, in fact, it is not for everyone but I do think it is worth a try if any of you are in the process of trying new mouthpieces. I love it and think it's the best sounding mouthpiece I have played. It only works with Vandoren V12 #4 and tunes a bit high (a=442). I think it has a wide pallet of color options, provides incredible ease in the articulation. You can play Pines of Rome solos with ease as well as the gliss in Rhapsody in Blue. It does everything I want it to.
Cheers to Walter!
Post Edited (2006-06-16 16:10)
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2006-06-21 01:44
OK, guys, you are making me blush!
Seriously, I have had tremendous help in my life, from great teachers, good friends, and kind and caring colleagues. I can't even begin to list everyone who has helped me along the way.
If you are making and selling clarinet products, it also helps to have intelligent and discerning customers. Here, I have been doubly blessed. I have enjoyed SO MUCH the interaction I have had with all my customers in the past 6 years.
As I told a friend in a conversation at the Oklahoma Symposium, even the negative criticism is valuable, because that's where you really learn what works and what doesn't.
I look forward to working with all of you and learning more every day.
Walter
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Author: Festival193
Date: 2006-06-21 20:26
I ordered my r13 from them a few years ago, and had great luck. They sent me three good horns, but one just stood out. The one I have now, obviously. I order reeds and things from them too. And in response to pewd (Paul in Dallas)'s comment, I had to have 3 of my tenons sanded. 3 didn't need that much, but one of them took 2 people to get it apart before I was able to take it in to get sanded.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-22 13:50
I'd like to add a comment about buying from someone like Walter Grabner. If you are getting an instrument from someone like Walter, you don't need to have 3 instruments sent out to you to try. He tries them for you and sends you the best of the 3 after setting them up on his end. However, if you buy from a discount seller like wwandbw or other online places, you need to get 2 or 3 to try because you're not getting the service of someone like Walter to try them for you before they're shipped out. When you consider the shipping costs and the charges on your credit card for multiple clarinets, you haven't saved as much as you think by buying from the discount place. Just a thought.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-22 13:59
Brenda Siewert wrote:
> I'd like to add a comment about buying from someone like Walter
> Grabner. If you are getting an instrument from someone like
> Walter, you don't need to have 3 instruments sent out to you to
> try.
I'd like to add a comment ...
I would find this patently untrue; just because Walter or whoever selects the instrument has found it to be wonderful does not imply in any way, shape, or manner that I will like it. It will match someone else's requirements and will most probably be set up wonderfully, which at least makes it a very eligible candidate and keep me from wasting an inordinate amount of time. That's a "good thing" but hardly a panacea.
Even then, Walter and people like him will select instruments that are subtly different from each other. Sending more than one will still give you a choice.
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Author: am0032
Date: 2006-06-23 01:30
Lisa Argiris does an awesome job picking out clarinets. My school has bought 3 bass clarinets, several Bbs, and an A. Every instrument she has sent I would confidently use in place of my personal horns. She asks what in particular you are looking for and goes from there. Very thorough. I would highly recommend her when buying clarinets. Her prices are often less that the major retailers.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-06-23 04:19
Unless someone is a beginner and is having his teacher choose his instrument, I don't see how it is possible to have someone else choose your instrument for you.
I recently read parts of the book Clarinet by Jack Brymer. It has an interesting point about how individual choosing an instrument is. He talks about two players from an orchestra, who can play in tune together, and both use the exact same model clarinet, mouthpiece and reed. Even if they switch mouthpieces and reeds they will sound fine.
But, if they switch instruments, they will play completely out of tune! That's becasue one of them has smaller tone holes and smaller pad hights in the throat area, and the other higher pads and bigger tone holes. If one of them chose an instrument for the other it would be very bad.
I had experience with Walter Grabner. Everything was ok other than a few small problems. First, it took much longer than he said it would for the item to arrive to him. Also, when I asked him to send me a photo of the item (he suspected it wasn't the correct item), he simply ignored my request, instead of saying he can or can't send me one. Other than these two issues he was fine and refunded me when it turned out to be the wrong item.
Although, what I ordered was kind of a special order item, but I'd say if you order a clarinet or a mouthpiece from him you are unlikely to have problems.
About WW&BW, I bought three clarinets there (from the actual stores, not mail order), two Bb clarinets and a bass clarinet. The first Bb (Buffet) had the barrel cracked a little after the warrenty expired, but still they sent me a new Chadash barrel for free. The other instruments needed some repairs about six months after I bought them. Being 15 hours of flight away, I couldn't bring them back to the store, but WWBW agreed to pay the cost of the repairs.
So yes, some of the clarinets I've tried there didn't have a really good setup, but I recommend them very much because of their service.
Post Edited (2006-06-23 04:41)
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