 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 2E
Date: 2006-06-13 10:32
Hi there fellow Bboarders,
Well ... I'm pretty new here, so I'm not sure if this has already been covered or not. I'm a student in my final year of school and my set up is as follows ...
Bb Clarinet: Buffet R13
Mouthpiece: Vandoren B40 (looking at upgrading to Pomarico Crystal)
Ligature: BG Revelation
Reeds: Vandoren Traditional (Bluebox) 3/3.5
Anyway, heres my question/problem: I generally place my ligature very high on my mouthpiece to ensure that the reeds secure and doesnt move etc. However this makes the reed vibrate less and produces a "brighter" sound. The ligature is generally on or above the top ligature line on my Vandoren mouthpiece. My teacher told me to place the ligature lower so that it lies on or below the bottom ligature line, when I did this it allowed the reed to vibrate much more freely. However, I didnt really like the sound it produced when I did this!
A seperate music teacher told me that the B40 mouthpiece is used for softer reeds and a mellower sound (generally for students, hence me wanting to upgrade.) Also that the revelation ligature was generally a "brighter" ligature (for soloists.) This is why I guess I didnt like my sound when I slightly altered the position of the ligature on my mouthpiece. I think my set up might be contradicting itself, according to this particular music teacher at least. ![[huh]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie11.gif)
Should I continue with my ligature strangling the reed to get the "brighter" sound Im used to? Or should I place the ligature on the bottom line of the mouthpiece? Should I look at a new ligature or mouthpiece or reeds even!? Your thoughts? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Toohey (as in the beer, yes)
Post Edited (2006-06-13 10:38)
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Author: beejay
Date: 2006-06-13 10:43
B40 to Pomarico -- upgrading?
I'd really question that. You are talking about two entirely different products, each excellent in its own way but hardly to be compared.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2006-06-13 11:43
The B40 is not a student mouthpiece.
I would suggest that you try some new reeds with the ligature in a normal position. I don't think you necessarily need to change anything, and I certainly don't think equipment can really 'contradict' itself.
It might even be worse if you have a mouthpiece and ligature 'made for mellowness'...the sound may be very dull and lacking in overtones.
Or alternately with a 'bright' mouthpiece and a 'bright' ligature you could have an overly bright set-up with no warmth.
The thing is, a lot of your sound is in your head. And you should talk to your teacher about it...because he can hear you...and we can't
But I'll try not to be completely useless here...
"Should I continue with my ligature strangling the reed to get the "brighter" sound Im used to?"
Not if you don't want the brighter sound!
(but I don't think strangling in any context is healthy...)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-13 17:57
I've often placed the lig on or a tad below the line but never above. Same with my belt.
Bob Draznik
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Author: 2E
Date: 2006-06-14 00:26
Alexis wrote:
> It might even be worse if you have a mouthpiece and ligature 'made for mellowness'...the sound may be very dull and lacking in overtones.
>Or alternately with a 'bright' mouthpiece and a 'bright' ligature you could have an overly bright set-up with no warmth.
I think this might be the contradiction I was talking about. I think the mouthpiece might be going for that mellowness, and the ligature might be going for that brightness.
Nevertheless thanks for your thoughts, I will try experimenting with my ideal sound. I'd be very interested to hear what other set-ups you Bboarders play, it would probably help me out a great deal.
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-06-14 17:44
Alexis wrote : "The B40 is not a student mouthpiece".
Why not ? ALL students in our music school (including my daughter : started at age 9, now 3rd year) start playing on a B40;
Here is it THE standard, and it is a great standard (changed myself with lots of success)
original post : 3 to 3 1/2 is quite strong indeed. Bluebox VD 2 1/2, or V12 3 should do the job nicely.
Post Edited (2006-06-14 17:46)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-06-14 19:38
Why not ? ALL students in our music school start playing on a B40
Might be more an indoctrination than a musical necessity. I presume all students start on R13s?
--
Ben
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-06-14 19:58
Nope,
R13 ? totally unknown in Belgium.
Just take any standard Exx, don't know if E11/E12 is preferred, can ask if you want ;-) , (I think E12 wood : ± 1000 Euro)
One day, if money allows : RC (like me) or more (festival ?) if more money is available (in one 'music university - Genth : Opus seems to be the way)
It is really no indoctrination, my teacher has Finished roots, studied in Moscow, Rotterdam and Antwerp (scored high in the Nielsen contest in Denmark), and one day decided that B40 is nice.
I didn't believe her either, but after testing some B45 and B40, now I'm a believer.
There are a lots of mouthpieces discussed in this BB, but to my limited knowledge, this is a VD country. Honestly I don't know what our greatest clarinet players (e.g. Walter Boeykens, Freddy Arteel,...) are playing, but probably VD
I don't argue that there are other (even better solutions), I only wanted to say that B40 can be a perfect match for beginners (my daughter is a real example, she's only 11 and B40 is just fine)
I also realize that there are a lot of different ways 'music education' exists around the world. We have probably the cheapest public music school system around (€ 50 / year max. for kids, €180 /year for adults), and there might be a different focus on owning instruments, and how much one is prepared to pay.
Also local community bands (as mine) do sometimes provide almost free of charge instruments (sometimes indeed RC's) to students for ... yep €0. We just do all kinds of funds raising to keep the money coming. Other bands offer intrest free loans to buy your own instrument..
It's hard, but fun ... and part of the game.
I posted this earlier that clarinet is a 'cheap' instrument, because professional level instruments are not expensive compared to other instrument, .. but I got quite some comment on that one.
Anyhow for me it is a fantastic hobby and worth the investment (I must admit I'm a bit of an addict playing in 2 windbands, 1 symphonic orchestra and a woodwind quintet on a regular base (weekly), and some other windbands when asked), but it outperforms watching TV ;-)
Post Edited (2006-06-14 20:09)
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-06-14 20:12
2E,
The chart on Vandoren's web site shows the B40 to be the third most open mouthpiece (out of 15). Normally a more open mouthpiece requires a softer reed (as one of your teachers has said).
The same chart shows that the B40 has a medium-long facing, which requires a stronger reed than a mouthpiece with the same tip opening and a shorter facing.
Vandoren recommends a soft reed for the B40; apparently the tip opening trumps the facing length for this model when it comes to the reed strength required.
Artie Shaw recommended a closed mouthpiece with a stiff reed. All the pictures I've seen of him show a standard 2-screw metal ligature - sometimes with screws on top; other times screws on the bottom. He seemed to know what he was doing.
You said: "I'd be very interested to hear what other set-ups you Bboarders play, it would probably help me out a great deal." I don't agree that it would help you, since we are all at different levels of experience, with different tastes, mouth cavity configurations, etc. This is not like buying a pair of shoes that may fit others just because their feet are similar. But, FWIW, I usually play a Vandoren 5RV (not the Lyre model) with a Vandoren Optimum ligature and a Zonda 2 1/2 reed. Also FWIW, the ligature makes no discernable difference in the sound I produce, but it keeps the reed on securely.
And finally, if you are going to experiment, it may be best to change only one variable at a time to compare results. You will also need someone whose judgment you trust to listen to you and tell you what is changing in your sound.
Regards,
Hans
Post Edited (2006-06-14 22:01)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-14 23:24
I've used the BG Super Revelation ligature for several years now and I always put it just under the first line on my mouthpiece. Too high up and you'll never get a good response on your reed, too low and you'll experience what you've mentioned.
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2006-06-17 07:58
Hi I should clarify that I meant to say that the B40 wasn't a student mouthpiece EXCLUSIVELY.
I wasn't denying students the right to use it. I just meant that lots of professionals used B40's and that it shouldn't be judged as an inferior 'student' mouthpiece.
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Author: 2E
Date: 2006-06-18 05:02
I like the B40 but I've had it for quite a few years (as a student with potential) so I was thinking of getting a pomarico crystal. It depends on what I find when I try them out, nothings set in stone yet. Good idea or a Bad idea? It's all about getting to my ideal sound I guess. I really like Eddie Daniels' smooth clarinet sound. But we all know that he plays on an Eddie Daniels clarinet with an Eddie Daniels ligature on his Eddie Daniels mouthpiece. Even if i had THAT set up I wouldnt sound like him anyway :(
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-18 05:14
2E wrote:
> But we all know that he plays
> on an Eddie Daniels clarinet with an Eddie Daniels ligature on
> his Eddie Daniels mouthpiece.
When did Eddie start making his own clarinets?
Did I miss something? ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: 2E
Date: 2006-06-18 08:18
My mistake. He plays a LeBlanc Concerto II, but you know what I mean!
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