 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2006-06-11 02:10
G'day everyone,
I'm pretty into orchestral excerpts this year - my Honours thesis is on them, and I'm taking my first audition for a pro orchestra soon-ish (a casual spot) so I've been playing a lot of excerpts this year.
Also, in my youth orchestra, later this year, in the same concert we're doing Cappriccio and Tchaik 4, both of which I have done in auditions and am studying this year but neither of which I have played in orchestra. However, I've played Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin and Beethoven Symph. 6 in orchestra (for example) after studying the excerpts and I must say, playing them in orchestra was a completely different experience.
So my question is, should you be playing excerpts in an audition like you would with the orchestra, or playing solos in the orchestra like you do excerpts on your own? ARE they different, or am I way off?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-11 04:51
Mastering an orchestral solo in the practice room is only part of the equation. You must also know how your part fits into the overall picture.
Who are you playing with during your solo?
What are the potential intonation problems?
How should you blend with the other instruments?
Are you thinking about tone color?
What phrasing are you using?
Is your articulation accurate? Is it consistant with the style called for?
Does your breathing/phrasing match the other instruments around you?
Are you projecting with a full, responsive sound?
and the list goes on.....
One of the biggest mistakes that students make when practicing excerpts on their own, is not counting the rests carefully.
Inaccurate rest counting is a rhythmic error, plain and simple.
I've seen many students practice orchestral excerpts, learning the passages cold, yet to make foolish counting mistakes with rests.
Knowing how to play selected excerpts is only half of the work required. You must also know how your ENTIRE part (as as well as important excerpt) is related to the work as a whole.
Get as many scores as possible. The only way to fully understand how your part fits is to see in print what is going on around you.
Remember - there is a world of difference between playing Rachmaninov #2 by yourself in the practice room or getting one chance to "nail it" under pressure on stage in front of a full concert audience...GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-06-11 12:22
The difference was the subject of my posting on the Beethoven 8th third movement. http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=768&t=768.
At the very least, you should play along with a recording and practice the excerpt from a full score.
My goal is to memorize the solo and then play it while reading the other parts, so that I know everything else that's happening as well as I know my own part.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-06-11 14:55
GBK said:
"One of the biggest mistakes that students make when practicing excerpts on their own, is not counting the rests carefully.
Inaccurate rest counting is a **rhythmic** error, plain and simple.
I've seen many students practice orchestral excerpts, learning the passages cold, yet to make foolish counting mistakes with rests.
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When I started out playing Associate Principal clarinet in the San Francisco Symphony about 25 years ago, it was my first rather big job. Having learned most of the repertoire in my teacher's studio, under his baton with school/small professional orchestras in the area, or the practice room, I too was also curious how different it might be playing in context with an orchestra of this calibre.
At my first rehearsal, we were playing (and recording) a piece that had me as principal clarinet sitting right next to legendary players like oboist Marc Lifschey, previously of the Cleveland Orchestra under Szell, and flautist Paul Renzi. Needless to say, it was something people dream about doing and I was a little awestruck.
I was also a little hesitant because of my relative lack of experience and wondered how and if my playing would come close to the level befitting the company to my immediate right and left (it was a piece that we all played sitting in one row). It had always been my style to honor my predecessors in the field - and these two gentleman were at the top of the list after having grown up in California near San Francisco and having heard them in the orchestra while growing up there.
Before the rehearsal started and as we were warming up for the minutes before the downbeat, I was able to strike up a very pleasant conversation with flutist Paul Renzi whom I knew had also played principal flute under Toscannini in the NBC orchestra for many years and now in his late 60's, had been the principal flutist in S.F. for many, many years.
I asked if he could offer any words of advice before we began. He smiled and knowing my tender age, came up with the most practical and succinct advice that in retrospect, one could possibly hope for.
He said:
*"One. Never talk back to the conductor" - (he probably felt obligated to start with the obvious).
*"Two. Count your rests and rhythms like you would your money."
and to add an amount of levity to the situation,
*"Three. Enjoy every last minute of it because it won't last forever!"
That was it! Rhythm was at the top of the list at the exclusion of everything else that he could have mentioned.
Fortune had been visited on me that day. Timing being everything, I was soon to learn that he couldn't have been more right.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-06-11 17:08)
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2006-06-11 17:17
Okay, this is amateur stuff, but the conductor of our 'amateur' symphonic orchestra (quite a nice group though) almost always ends the last rehearsal (raccord ?) with the following words :
"have fun tonight and enjoy the concert" .
I think this is what is its all about, isn't it ? Matches pretty much the last line of your famous flutist.
Even if you're doing this for "money" (one has to live), it all started for the fun it gives.
I'm doing something completely different (from music) to make a living (and I have fun there too), and I'm glad I didn't become pro musician, but only because of economical reasons. when playing with the symphonic orchestra (recent Beethoven 5th) I enjoy every second, and 'envy' the people that can have this fantastic experience over and over again.
On the other end, I'm very lucky guy to have 'music'. Even after the hardest day, it only takes a few 'bars' of music ;-), and I'm in a totally different world.
Post Edited (2006-06-11 17:25)
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