 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Markael
Date: 2006-06-09 12:51
What is your opinion on this:
In the schools in my area, beginning band students try out, so to speak, on different instruments. They try to get a sound out of the various instruments, and are graded for their attempts. Then they are encouraged, cajoled, or required to select an instrument based on their best scores.
Personally, I think it's a load of horse hockey.
Now, I realize that it might be somewhat different for brass players. I have known of mediocre trumpet guys who ended up doing very well on low brass.
But still--
My first day in band (several decades ago) I couldn't get a note out on my clarinet. I had to take it home and practice to get an open G.
It sounds to me that this is just a convenient way for band directors to slice and dice the band.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-09 13:07
That's why Drum and Bugle Corps are so popular....
Bob Draznik
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-09 13:25
But what if little Suzy's parents insist on her playing flute, or already own one?
Worse yet - I have seen beginning band directors ONLY offer the instruments which were lacking or needed to be filled in their elementary band.
For example: NO saxophones or percussion one year, or a VERY limited number of clarinets, flutes and trumpets another year.
Of course, there was never any limits placed on low brass. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
In our district, the music department sends a letter out to all parents of students eligible for band describing the elementary instrumental music program and outlining ALL the instrument choices available. (ex: no electric guitar) Parents were asked to indicate a first and second choice for their child as well as if they already own or have access to an instrument.
In almost every instance their requests were honored.
Obviously, not every child was successful in the beginning instrumental program (although our numbers were quite impressive), but the parents are the ones ultimately footing the (tax) bill and they must have a say in their child's music education.
Is the goal of elementary instrumental music to have a perfectly balanced 4th grade band, or try to honor the parents (and child's) reasonable request?
Remember - "Lightly Row" will sound perfectly fine at the 1st concert whether played with 35 clarinet players or 6 ...GBK
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-06-09 16:07
I teach clarinet/woodwinds in several schools in my area.
I think the answer to GBK's question is straight down the middle of the of those two opposites. (Unfortunately in the gray area, right?)
Directors here "audition" new band students on the mouthpieces of different instruments. I don't believe that each student is graded as meticulously as is being described above, but why shouldn't a prospective student be encouraged to play an instrument that their face is most apt for?
If they (the student) insist on playing what they had their heart set on, the parents are prepared for the possible difficulties and encouraged to seek lessons.
We don't have the militant restrictive availability that GBK describes: that is just as inefficient as not "auditioning" students at all. Why force a future clarinetist to play tuba because you have enough 'nets?
PS...just 'cause mom 'n dad have a saxophone doesn't make little Tommy a saxohponist.
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: marzi
Date: 2006-06-09 16:30
, not the case in our school, they can choose what they want, later on in jr high and sr high the kids may branch out into playing multiple other instruments anyway , they are never locked into one instrument for life after all. my son wasn't deemed ready for oboe in jr high, now in high school they will even lend him an oboe over the summer and let him give it a try. our high school band ended up with 10 percussionists so they got creative in finding the right pieces to keep them all busy! And how can you "plan" in elementary school for what numbers of which instruments will be needed later, especially with people moving in and out of the districts?
ON tTHE Other hand, maybe its the director's way to equalize by getting more boys to play flute and more girls into the brass section and percussinon sections that way,,, despite my youngest seeing grown men play flute/piccolo he still thinks of it as a "girls" only instrument no matter what i tell him...
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2006-06-09 16:40
Some places don't begin until middle school.
I believe that the high school directors realize that they cannot plan everything, but they (and lower directors) do attempt to plan what they can!
The middle schools I deal with are wonderfully low pressure as to having the perfect instrumentation.
No one needs 10+ saxophone players in more advanced ensembles. How do you prevent this? Don't have 30 beginning saxophones!
Or do you tell all the extra sax's they have to move to something else for the year?
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-06-09 17:49
My elementary/middle school band let us choose what we wanted, largely because the school didn't have its own instruments (iirc) so we just had to buy or rent our own.
On average, our band consisted of: (full range in parentheses)
10 flutes (6-12)
1 clarinet (0-3)
3 alto saxophones (1-5)
1 trumpet (0-2)
2 trombones (1-3)
0 tubas (had 1 one year)
2 full drum kits (had a snare-only player one year)
Oh, and I played flute at the time.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: pewd
Date: 2006-06-09 18:30
>I believe that the high school directors realize that they cannot plan
> everything, but they (and lower directors) do attempt to plan
> what they can!
of course they do.
one school where i teach privately had about 130 incoming students (we start in 6th grade). 50 or so selected saxophone; another 40 selected percussion. the remaining 40 were scattered over the remaining instruments. this is the kenny g effect - he appears on a video the kids see, and they think that shiny saxophone is cool looking, so all the beginners want to play sax.
that will result in an unmanageable instrumentation balance when they get to high school. so after a point the saxophone class is closed to new students. the others have to pick a different instrument.
percussion candidates have to select 3 instruments. they are given a rhythm test - the top 10-12 enter the percussion class; the others are moved to their 2nd or 3rd choice.
i won't get into whether or not that is proper - but it is reality with the massive beginning classes we have here. you can't win marching or concert contests with a band composed primarily of saxophones and percussionists - so the directors balance the beginning classes to ensure that they have balanced sections when the kids get to 7th grade and above.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2006-06-09 18:40
In my middle school, we weren't allowed to choose sax in sixth grade. If you wanted to play sax, you had to play clarinet for a year, then switch in seventh grade. The idea was that if they let us play sax in sixth grade, we would all play it. By starting some of us on clarinet, some of us would end up sticking with it. I think the plan backfired and almost nobody switched to sax in seventh grade, though. I think kids didn't want to go through the process of learning to play a whole new instrument.
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-06-09 19:36
I'm on the "they choose" side. It goes like this. The syllabus they sign says that they choose the instrument they play but that the Director (that's me) reserves the right to discuss an instrument change with a parent if he/she feels the switch will benefit the child (i.e. there's no way they'll be any good on Trumpet, Clarinet, etc.) I've changed someone.....once....and before I could contact the parent the parent contacted me.
They get to branch out, switch and all in middle school. Is it some extra work for my colleagues at Middle School...yes. Do they mind. No. Because they're getting ~150 kids every year.
I had 120 kids this year....50 played Sax....no big. GBK is right. Lightly Row sounded the same as the year I had 50 Clarinets.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2006-06-09 20:04
My philosophy is like what Paul described. Part of the director's job is to achieve a balanced instrumentation. I suppose a lot depends on what kind of a band the admnistration and band parents expect, and that's just the way of life in most Texas schools.
I think most directors let the children play their first choice of instrument, but I know that the directors: 1)also look at the physical traits of each student; 2) observe what type of tone production they get on different instruments; and 3) give rhythm tests to prospective percussion instrumentalists. I know one school that will not let a child play percussion unless they have a verifiable piano background or are willing to enroll their child into piano lessons as well.
I don't think this gets into the catagory of "smoke and mirrors", but does have a bit of salesmanship involved. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is in this section of the country.
jbutler
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-06-09 20:07
When I first started playing an instrument... say 14 years past...
My instrument choices were:
1. Trumpet
2. Baritone
3. Flute
Anyone who had the flute as any choice were marched in a row and asked to play the headjoint. Those who couldn't get a sound moved on to whatever the next choice was and those that could, played flute.
So I played flute.
Then in highschool I encountered a band director that didn't want male flutists. Specifically said out loud to the classroom that he didn't want pansies on the football field when I expressed my disinterest in learning Tuba. I owned my own flute. I quit band at the end of that semester till I moved to another school.
I played flute the first semester, but somehow got suckered into playing oboe the rest of way through highschool (flute for marching though). Tried quitting the oboe a couple times, but the director had quite a temper and I stuck with it and doubled where I could.
I always thought it would have been better had my first choices been taken into account especially being a guy, looking back. Though now I couldn't play anything else, but flute or oboe... as I couldn't imagine playing anything as well.
Regards,
Stephen
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2006-06-09 23:34
I think it's a tough deal whichever way you slice it. I don't necessarily think that the kids should be "graded" on any of their first attempts at the instruments though.
Way back when, our incoming 5th grade class was given the opportunity to select up to 3 choices to sample playing. I chose 1. percussion 2. oboe 3. clarinet. (I don't remember if that was the order or not.) I heard someone else trying the oboe and that made that choice impossible. It sounded bad, so I didn't want to play it. The clarinet reed tickled my lower lip so I didn't want to play that either.
I played percussion that year in band, but because the band director never suggested we get private lessons, he was my sole instructor. He also (very obviously to a 10yr old) didn't teach us girls who played "boys'" instruments as effectively as the other more gender-appropriate choices! So after a year I played clarinet anyway...and succeeded very well.
In my private teaching practice I'd always rather teach someone who wants to play clarinet. I had one young lady a few years back who had her heart broken because she wasn't allowed to play sax. She didn't want to play clarinet even as an intro to sax. I suspect band directors may be shooting themselves in the foot with kids like this who really have a burning desire for one instrument, and not just the peer pressure ones.
Katrina
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2006-06-10 04:11
Remembering way back...
Starting Junior High band, to be a percissionist one had to have a couple years piano training. That tended to limit the section to just the right amount. The rest of us had to mention at least two choices. I put down the Bagpipes, The saxophone, and the Trumpet I think. I had crooked teeth, big lips, and the bagpipe thing wasn't going to fly. I think my instructor, a clarinet player, thought that the saxophone was the least common denominator and pushed the better prospects towards other instruments (it turns out she was perhaps a very poor saxophone instructor. I arrived in private lessons years later with professors of saxophone who corrected many 'clarinet-like' mistakes with my technique).
And yeah, I don't think I could personally stand a band of 40 altos and three flutes, and such. I would much prefer a better balance.
-JfW
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Author: Aussiegirl
Date: 2006-06-10 23:32
Wow thats really strange...my school just had a meeting at the start of year 7 (12 and 13 year olds) and said "what do you want to play?" and the majority of people got what they wanted. We did have a million flutes but they slowly dropped out through the years, as did many people on other instruments when they lost interest/didnt have enough time/whatever reason, and we also werent allowed to play sax in year 7, had to play clarinet first, but apart from that we had a fairly balanced band instrument-wise. I dont know what i would have ended up playing if they had have "graded" me on my first attempt at instruments- according to my brass-playing friends i have a pretty good buzz, and it took me awhile to get my head around the reed and mouthpiece idea of the clarinet :S My brother, a trumpet player, can also get some pretty good starting sounds out of a clarinet- but hes a good trumpeter and has no interest in playing woodwind at all...i can just see that lots of kids might drop out of music altogether bc they are placed on an instrument that they dont really want to play :S
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-06-11 03:00
<<i can just see that lots of kids might drop out of music altogether bc they are placed on an instrument that they dont really want to play >>
On the other hand, if a competent assessment is done by the teacher at that first encounter, at least some young people will be saved the trauma of trying to a play an instrument for which they are unfit (like, a drummer with a weak sense of beat and two left feet, or in a case I recall from high school, the shortest little girl in the clarinet section choosing to march with a bass clarinet that was taller than she was).
I think some folks are making too much of this "grading" thing that the original poster mentions. Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but this isn't a "grade" of achievement given to the student that goes in their permanent record, or counts toward their GPA, is it? I'm thinking it's more like a teacher's observations and rating of the "fit" of the instrument with the student. Frankly, I think that's a marvelous idea -- as long as there is a degree of leeway permitted, such as the right of refusal down to the third choice, or something.
Susan
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Author: Aussiegirl
Date: 2006-06-11 03:21
<i>the shortest little girl in the clarinet section choosing to march with a bass clarinet that was taller than she was</i>
Lol. I got asked to play bari sax in year 8 as a last resort bc there wasnt one in the newly formed jazz band. After the first rehersal i was asked did i want to swap with the tenor player cos i was struggling a bit and had to sit on two chairs so they instrument didnt hit the ground. I said no and kept at it and now i play bari fairly confidently and its done a lot for my clarinetting
I know that the grading doesnt go towards a permanent record or anything, it was just my personal opinion that what kids are instantly able to get a sound out of and what they might be able to do after a few lessons on an instrument that they are passionate about might be different things.
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Author: Fearnotsomuch
Date: 2006-06-11 16:03
We chose what we wanted but our director would encourage us to try other instruments, especially if she felt we were better suited for them. I started as clarinet and stayed a clarinet through middle school. It seemed to work and we always seemed pretty balanced instrumentally. Usually 3-5 Clarinets, 5 flutes, 3 trumpets and trumbones, a bass clarinet, and 3 percussionists. Not too bad for being so small.
Our high school director did the same and pushed me towards trumpet. She obviously didn't have as much of an eye(or ear) for what I was good at. I was LOUSY at trumpet... and that was one of the many reasons I dropped out of band during high school.
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