 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-10 12:59
Hello again. Thanks for the input on going multi. I now have a related topic for you all. The B-Flat clarinet I play at the moment is a Buffet E-11. To upgrade, my teacher suggests I get an R-13. Should I bother trying out other clarinets, or just go straight for the R-13? Do all of you experiencd clarinettists have an opinion on this? I know you do, so let's hear it!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-10 13:05
David,
Disagreeing with your teacher, even if you're right, can be a dangerous proposition. Are you ready to do that?
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Author: William
Date: 2000-05-10 14:38
Dave--Mark has a point, but I would question the wisdom of any teacher who does not encourage experimentaion and research. R-13's are the standard by which all other clarinets are measured and are a natural step-up from E-11's. However, there are other great clarinets available these days that are worth considering: Buffets Greenline, International and Prestgue; Leblancs Opus and Concertos; Rossi Clarinets (if I could afford a set right now, I would be playing these); Yamaha and Selmer (to a lesser degree) both make fine professional level instruments. Currently, I am playing LeBlanc Concertos for orchestra and wind ensembles, but would not hesitate to go back to my old R-13s (which I still own and would never sell) which I played for many years before switching. I changed to LeBlancs because my old college professor (and a lot of other professionals) made the change and because Tom Ridenour (who was then LeBlancs clarinet designer) helped me pick a good set and then "tweaked" them for me. So......, listen to your teacher....., but, there are other experts out there and you should listen to them as well and try other equipment before you decide. Good luck and try not to go crazy in the proccess--it can be as maddening as finding that "perfect" reed. Then, how about mouthpieces, barrels, ligitures, custom bells and etc, etc, etc, .....are you sure you don't want to switch to trombone???????
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-05-10 15:10
In terms of price and quality, the R13 is probably the best buy. If you can, why not satisfy your curiosity and try some other brands in the same professional range? Do you have to tell your teacher? Although I played the R13 for many years and loved it, I had a lot of fun trying out a bunch of instruments (Leblanc Opus, Buffet R13 and Prestige, Selmer Signature and 10G) before deciding on a new one (I won't say which one).
And for William: what's wrong with the trombone? It's a beautiful instrument without the worry of reeds, pads, valves (in the case of the slide trombone) or keys.
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Author: Mike M
Date: 2000-05-10 18:26
Boy, that’s a can of worms!
I’d definitely try as many different models as possible. If you can narrow it down to three or four clarinets, try to get your teacher to play them, and more importantly, listen to you play them.
I bought a new Bb/A set last year and tried Yahamhas, a Selmer 10G, a Signature (tweaked by T.R.), a dozen R13’s, 5 Prestige’s, and a couple of Leblance Opus’. Once I narrowed it down to 3 (an R-13, a Prestige, and a Patricola), I got my teacher’s opinion. We spent an entire lesson playing, listening and examining the instruments.
Not surprisingly, we were in agreement when it came down to picking one, and his input and professional judgment were invaluable. Surprising though is the fact that he initially had a strong allegiance to the Prestige and he ended up recommending the Patricola. Would HE play them in the Symphony or at a recital where his reputation was on the line? I don’t know. Do my favorite world famous clarinetist play the same instrument? No. But they are right for me and they may be the last set I’ll every buy.
It’s an important decision so don’t limit your choices. After all, it probably wont cost you anything except gas money and time to try, and you may learn something about what’s right for you in the process.
Happy Hunting.
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-05-10 22:00
I vote for the "try before buy" method. I would hope that your instructor would be more open minded about clarinets. There are now major competitors for the R-13 "market", so I believe you should try them out. LeBlanc, Selmer, and Yamaha are the major brands of very good to excellent clarinet competitors. Patricola, Rossi are also worth mentioning. There is one more strictly pro clarinet grade brand from England that's worth looking at, but I can't remember the name. Try looking at professional quality clarinets in catalogs such as the Woodwind and Brasswind and their retail/e-tail competitors. Then, shop around, play what you can, have professional clarinetists help you if you can, and get the best horn for your money that fits you and your tastes.
Once you make a committment to a horn, take the time and effort to learn it very well. Each horn has a different feel and behavior. You will notice the difference especially when stepping up from an intermediate grade horn. I know I did when I stepped up from an intermediate horn to a premium pro grade horn. I stepped up from a Yamaha YCL-52 straight cut tone holed horn to a sister of the R-13 called the Festival with all of the fancy stuff you can imagine on it. Based on my limited experience, I'd say that the pro grade horn demands a lot more discipline from the player, especially from novices and intermediate level players. I also wholeheartedly believe that you get back what you put into it. So, no matter what horn you decide to get, put the work into it to get the performance out of it.
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Author: Roger Harvey
Date: 2000-05-11 07:37
Lots of good advice above. I would add to the list of instruments try the Leblanc 'Infinte'. This isavailable at a very attractive price, and compares with the Concerto, but with more R13-like tuning.
Have fun!
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-11 12:54
Mark, the webmaster, really felt like a kick in the head with his message, but the rest of you are making sense, so far. I will talk to my teacher about trying out different clarinets, and even if 'no' is the answer, I would still try any clarinet before I buy it, even if it is recommended. I wonder, have any of you ever bought a clarinet without trying it out beforehand? I presume the answer is no.
OH! And by the way, how did Trombones get into the conversation? I know I said I was going multi, but not with a completely different instrument!!!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-11 13:30
Dave,
I stand by the statement. When you go against the wishes of a teacher you must be prepared to withstand their criticism. I have seen many cases where the student, following advice of others, has gone against an advisor's or teacher's wishes. The teacher may never forgive you, or may start finding fault (real or imagined) with your selection. The reality (that you possibly selected a better instrument) may not weigh heavily in your favor, human nature being what it is. That's why I said it was a dangerous proposition and you must be prepared for resistance from your teacher or possibly even hostility. It depends on the teacher, and you may not know the reaction until it's too late.
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-12 14:28
I understand what you're saying Mark, and if it were any other teacher I would definetely not even think of this. My clarinet teacher and I know each other very well, so I can actually talk through it with her now. I certainly wouldn't buy a different type without her approval, NO WAY! I understand that it is important to have the teacher's respect, but I have that anyway, and won't do anything stupid, so there's no problem. End of story.
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Author: earl thomas
Date: 2000-05-12 23:18
Very interesting suggestions from "experienced" clarinetists. I think Mark has a valid point re going counter to the advice of the teacher. However, it is good to try other brands of clarinets. Think of all the money those companies have spent on new lithography, sales-kits, advertising, endorsements, etc. You'd be better off if you stuck to the Buffet, but trying out the "competition" won't do any harm and could be enlightening. Now, for my advice:
I found the R-13 in the early 100,000 serial number category to be quite good. I've had three of them, sold them all because I have two non-R13s (B-flat and A) with serial numbers below 22,000....the A is circa 1915 and the B-flat is circa 1934. Neither of them are "blown-out" (what a subtle put-down some folks use in mouthing that oh-so-trite phrase!!). They've been expertly overhauled and purr perfectly in all registers. The mouthpiece has a lot to do with it, also, and the ligature. I recently un-earthed some great Morre2 1.2 reeds (12.6 width ---the 12.5's seem more resistant) which, with the Peter Spriggs ligature make a very great, indeed, setup. That's my advice and I wish you all the very best in your quest!! Sincerely, E. Thomas
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Author: allison
Date: 2000-05-13 13:03
I am an "amateur" (with no intention of ever doing anything else) and at xmas was given a rossi Bb to replace my R13 Buffet! Yes I know I am damn lucky! Hey some people get cars for graduation. I also have had a chance to play a C clarinet built by Steven Fox for quite some time. I have now had a chance to sort of rethink my ingrained dedication to Buffet as a result. In retrospect... try everything! and then buy the one that feels and sounds the best no matter what the price or time frame required to get it.... IF.. you know that you are going to be involved with music all your life. Forget the upgrading. It is worth every sacrificed penny and minute to get the best equipment from the start. And in the long run you don't spend any more than you would have trading them in and upgrading over the years. I wish I had done this years ago!
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Author: Michael Porter
Date: 2000-05-14 10:45
All of the times I have purchased instruments I have not done so with the help of an instructor. My first wood clarinet was a buffet R13 with a 216 serial number. I went through about thirty clarinets to find this one, and I wasn't a very good player at the time. You know what? All my instructors have loved it, and at least one thought it was better than his own horn and he offered to buy it.
It has been an instrument that has always been with me, and one that I'll never give up willingly.
I think the key to buying a clarinet is to try alot of them, taking notes along the way. Don't be in a hurry. If you feel you need help in making a selection that's ok. But don't give in to someone else's pressure, and don't get a horn you aren't comfortable with. Take a tuner with you so you can get a good idea if it will play in tune or if it has bad notes (which may be caused by improper adjustment).
Good luck and happy hunting!
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Author: Ken
Date: 2000-05-16 04:12
Anyone besides Mark consider the fact the man's teacher knows precisely what horn is best for him at this point in his playing career and can be completely trusted to chose a suitable upgrade? If it was me, and I had a long time professional relationship, utmost respect and good rapport with MY teacher I'd jump at the chance to capitalize on their trained ear and years of experience. Hand him/her the money, let THEM go down and select one for me, buy them lunch for their trouble and leave it at that. How many students here can truthfully boast they can pick out a better horn for themselves than their teachers? Any picker at the intermediate or advanced level would be perfectly happy with an R-13; it would serve anyone faithfully as a solo instrument and/or blend well in all orchestra, concert/jazz band or chamber settings...especially if it's prep-ed correctly. The old R-13 is still one of the most flexible horns crafted today and a excellent buy for the bucks. I say, noodle with all clarinets for fun you wish, but unless you know exactly what you're doing, it's you're money--trust the teacher!
PS No, I'm not a Buffet salesman. Happy practicing! <:-)
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Author: Ken
Date: 2000-05-21 16:44
Hi Dave, I teach very little these days: Three students in the past four years, I don't have the time any longer due to my playing career. Also, I got sick and tired of HS and college students that wouldn't practice, just going through the motions and contending with impatient, irate parents. It also troubled me taking people's money without producing results. The dedicated students I do have are improving in leaps-and-bounds due to their own hard work and it's the greatest feeling in the world to watch and hear them mature musically...they all play on R-13s and that's what I recommend. If you have a fine teacher (it appears you do) and you're in it for the long haul, at least follow their advice for this purchase...you couldn't be in better hands. Another point: when choosing a new horn there's also the "durability factor" to consider as well. The R-13 even today is of course, the industry standard in entry-level professional line horns and has withstood the test of time for good reason. I travel over 160 days a year in the US, Europe and Far East and my buffet is hands-down the most road-worthy axe I've ever owned. By necessity, I do split my allegiances between a Leblanc "Opus" for concert band/orchestra gigs and my old 1975 R-13 when playing the swing jazz and Dixieland. I prefer to use my buffet for everything but I need to use the Opus in classical settings because it blends better with the ensemble, has a tighter, more even pitch center throughout all three registers and a deeper, darker rich sound (to name a few). My Buffet on the other hand is much more “flexible” when playing the jazz. I can take more command over the instrument; it’s freer blowing and responsive from high C to double C, easier controlling tight/wide vibrato and I can change my sound at will to fit the occasion. Also, my Buffet is much more “alternate fingering friendly” than my Opus. In my experience, it's simply a matter of the right tool for the right job. Without really getting into all the "geek technicalities," personalities and inherent characteristics from one brand to another, if your're set on another brand besides an R-13, your teacher is open to the idea and you have the funds try the Buffet “Elite” or Leblanc “Concerto” or “Opus”. As far as I’m concerned, they’re overall the best-crafted horns on the market today. What ever you do in the future, don’t follow the crowd, it’s your baby and new best friend…you’ve got to be completely satisfied with the choice so you can have peace. Happy shedding! <:-)
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Author: Dave Lee Ennis
Date: 2000-05-23 12:42
This was GOOD advice Ken, not ill-advice, don't put yourself down and thank you very much for the help.
Dave.
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