 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-06-06 00:50
Here's a video of Artie Shaw playing a heavily cut (3-1/2 minutes) version of his concerto. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FexTneoQxPQ&search=clarinet
He's doing the fingerings, but it looks like he wasn't playing in the film His embouchure isn't set, and he takes at least one breath while the clarinet tone continues. The performance is excellent.
It's from a 1940 Fred Astaire/Paulette Goddard movie "Second Chorus."
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2006-06-06 00:52)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-06 02:33
The greatness of the big band era clarinetists often is taken for granted as the years have gone by.
It was nice to see Artie in action, making it look and sound so effortless...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-06-06 03:44
My wife gave me two DVD's, Best of the Big Bands (Artie Shaw and Friends), it includes "Swing Concerto".
The other is Benny Goodman (Adventures in the Kingdom of Swing). I really enjoyed the Artie Shaw, especially since there is so little film of him. The Benny Goodman was really special, semi documentary on Benny, great music, lot's of interviews with the King himself, family and players. WOW...I was just blown away.
I love them both, but have always leaned a little toward Artie Shaw as the player, and Benny Goodman as the musician. One comment made by one of the players, " Benny had a lot of Bands and different players throughout the years, but they always sounded like Benny Goodman".
...Jim
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-06 03:59
seafaris wrote:
> I love them both, but have always leaned a little toward Artie
> Shaw as the player, and Benny Goodman as the musician.
From a 1999 interview, Artie Shaw on Benny Goodman:
"...Benny was a superb technician, but he had a limited vocabulary. He never understood that there were more than a major, a minor and a diminished -- he just couldn't get with altered chords. We worked together for years in radio, and Benny was pretty dumb. His brother Freddy managed one of my last bands, and I once asked him what Benny was like as a kid. He said, "Stupid." I said, "How do you account for his success?" He said, "The clarinet was the only thing he knew," and it's true. He was sort of an idiot savant -- not quite idiot, but on the way. He didn't quite make it to idiocy..."
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-06-06 05:27
Only said as Artie Shaw could say it!
BG's daughter made the comment that one of the things she remembered as a child were all those reeds on the floor. She said there could be 60 of them thrown all over the place while her Dad was looking for the right one.
...Jim
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Markael
Date: 2006-06-06 10:33
I heard a recording of another interview with Artie Shaw in which he spoke of Benny Goodman. I can't quote it exactly as GBK did, but this is the gist of it:
Benny pointed to his clarinet and said, "This will never let you down."
Artie's comment was that it was a strange thing to say about a stick of wood.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: redwine
Date: 2006-06-06 11:06
Hello,
Several years ago, I purchased the VHS recording of the movie "Second Chorus". The movie's not great, but you can see the entire performance of the concerto. Artie is/was my absolute favorite.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-06-06 14:25
This is the except from "Second Chorus" which features a rehearsal of Arties CONCERTO FOR CLARINET in preparation for the "big" concert However, the published version of the CONCERTO with piano acc. is quite different than what Artie plays here and I wonder if it was transcribed from an actual Shaw performance or if he wrote it at a later time--or if the solo part was written by someone else and approved by Artie. Anyone....................?????
BTW, a good friend of mine has recently written an arrangement of the CONCERTO (from the printed version) for concert band which I am trying to get him to publish. I have performed it two times this past month and will be doing it again in August, but so far, only two copies of the arrangement exist--the one I bought and the local VFW Bands. If it does become available, I'll let y'all know, but as of now, it is not available--and please, no requests for copies.
Post Edited (2006-06-06 19:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jim S.
Date: 2006-06-06 14:31
As a kid I always preferred Benny. It was because of his tone, and because I associated Artie with his hits, which I think he would agree were not his best work by any means. I have since heard stuff by Artie that is very, very good. But I don't think his Concerto reflects how good his improvisational ideas were. It seems pretty uninspired to me no matter how good his performance is, technically. (No one could smear as effortlessly as Artie.)
Benny was not stupid, but it is true that he was very, very narrow in his fixation on his version of jazz and his career. Also, he wasn't very nice to a lot of people. Collier's bio is filled with stories about his insensitivity. His childhood explains his drive to "make it big". There were always frictions among the brothers, but Benny helped them all over the years. He financed a band for Freddy which flopped. Maybe that failure was the source of Freddy's intemperate remark.
Benny demonstrated a greater ambition to stretch himself beyond jazz and work hard at developing his understanding and performance of the classical clarinet works. That is something Artie wouldn't do. Artie was jealous of Benny's celebrity, I think, (perhaps like Freddy Goodman) and perhaps also jealous of his dogged work ethic. Benny's superior tone is very tangible proof of the hours of practice that Artie wouldn't put in just for more technique. Artie was a more complex guy, no doubt about it. They had equally outsized egos. Artie was probably "brainier" in the usual sense of the word. Read a lot, wrote a novel, etc. Benny, in a Clarinet mag article didn't know of the Kegelstatt Trio. That makes sense. He probably had no interest in listening to other clarinetists or studying the expanse of clarinet literature. He was too absorbed in practicing for the next performance while Artie was relaxing in Carmel.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-06-06 14:54
Absolutely amazing to watch. I loved the closeups of his hands. Not to mention that last note!!! Wow! Thanks so much for this clip.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-06-06 15:11
Don't forget that Benny Goodman stopped, signed up with Reginald Kell as his teacher and converted late in life to a double lip embochure. Quite a committment for an accomplished musician --to make such a major change.
OUCH
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2006-06-06 15:42
Hans--thanks for the link and info. Although I would characterize the arrangement being more for a pops orchestra than "big band" as it features a lot of strings as does the orchestra featured in the movie, "Second Chorus". For me, big band means saxs, bones, trumpets and rhythm (with guitar). The clarinet part, however, is identical to the version that I use.
Post Edited (2006-06-06 19:26)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: awm34
Date: 2006-06-06 15:55
I read that while Shaw considered Goodman a better clarinetist, he considered himself a better musician.
His self-selected 5-CD-set "Discography 1936-1954" is worthwhile. As interesting (and likely difficult) a person as Shaw was, it's surprising that he apparently never used black musicians -- even though times were changing.
Alan Messer
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hans
Date: 2006-06-06 15:59
awm34,
Re: "he apparently never used black musicians"... I think you may be mistaken.
Regards,
Hans
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-06-06 16:00
How about Billy Holiday?
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2002/mar/shaw/
Shaw had persuaded Holiday to join his big band at a time when a black singer in a white band was shocking. "I knew that was going to be kind of scandalous, but she was a good singer," he says.
....Jim
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: redwine
Date: 2006-06-06 16:11
Hello,
It's funny, but I prefer Shaw because of his tone. I think Goodman's is far inferior.
I just dug out my movie and listened to the concerto performance. It is the entire concerto, just improvised differently and shorter than the recorded concerto.
I do have a dvd of Shaw playing the famous version on film. I'll have to dig that one out now too.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-06-06 16:30
...and
http://www.pbs.org/jazz/biography/artist_id_shaw_artie.htm
Like Goodman, Shaw was an energetic spokesman for racial equality in jazz, hiring and recording black musicians such as Holiday, Page, and Eldridge. His autobiography from 1952 sets him apart from many of his jazz colleagues by its intelligent and lucid writing. His collection of scores and other materials is now in the library of Boston University.
....Jim
you can see that I don't have much to do this morning! :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-06 17:56
"Artie was jealous of Benny's celebrity, I think, "
Yes, that's the same conclusion I have reached. I believe that Benny married a woman whose brother was very successful in the music business and who helped BG significantly so there's some proof he wasn't stupid. I respect both tremendously as clarinetists . Many young people today have no idea of the struggle these guys had as kids.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gobboboy
Date: 2006-06-06 17:58
Thanks for that rare clip, it was really great to watch!
I only wish I'd seen it this time last year. I recorded it last summer!
It would have given me quite a new approach to it. It sounds really laid back and free on that clip, a much looser feel with more improv around it. I stuck (pretty much) to the dots but I kinda want another bash at it in the studio now!!
cheers, a really good find!!
G
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Markael
Date: 2006-06-06 18:27
Who said Artie Shaw never used Black musicians!
He once told a story about a time when Roy Eldridge got drunk and came at him with a knife.
"I just looked at him. Roy, if I'm your enemy, who are your friends?"
Eldridge wept.
Also, while it is true that both Goodman and Shaw had egos, it doesn't exactly make sense to me that Shaw was jealous of Goodman's celebrity. Shaw's own celebrity got to be too much for him.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-06 19:19
"Shaw's own celebrity got to be too much for him."
Yes, that's what he claimed. But one can't always believe what we say about ourselves. If you just compare the number of marriages of the two men it should tell you something about their emotional makeup. Understand, I'm not judging them.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Markael
Date: 2006-06-07 01:32
Well, Bob, we’re getting into some interesting psychological territory, speculating on personal feelings and motives.
Your comment about Shaw’s many wives is astute, and is a key point about his personality and style. He was restless and hard to satisfy.
Goodman was hard to satisfy, but in a different way. He couldn’t understand why his side men missed notes.
Jim’s comment about Goodman’s “dogged work ethic” is valid, but perhaps a bit misleading as a comparison with Shaw. Shaw could not have played as well as he did without hard work and discipline. Indeed, he told of a time when he was playing seven hours a day. But then, for a while he put the clarinet down, lived in a cabin, and cut wood for people. For a while, that was good enough for him.
Who knows—maybe he was jealous. Human feelings are often illogical and contradictory. I’ll speak for myself: The life of a traveling musician, going from town to town and living out of a suitcase is not for me. And yet, sometimes I feel a tinge of resentment when I hear an interview with a traveling musician who says something like, “Yeah, I started playing the guitar three years ago.”
How did we end up talking about all this? The video is great. In the end it’s all about the music. Musicians are a loony lot, any way you slice it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Pathik
Date: 2006-06-07 09:21
It's a great video clip for sure, and it's always inspiring to watch Artie Shaw play and to listen to him. It's obvious that he was a more complex personality than Benny Goodman, but whatever we think of them, it's all opinions. My personal favourite (not that anyone is that interested) is no doubt AS. They were both great technically, but Artie was more interesting in the way he improvised, musically at least he seemed a lot more intelligent than BG. Anyone who hasn't heard the last recordings he ever made, with his Gramercy Five band in 1954, ought to check them out. It's some of the best jazz clarinet I've ever heard (and I've heard a whole lot of it), and the rest of the band is great too. Benny Goodman of course also made lots of wonderful recordings, especially his small bands, the classic trio and quartet sides with Wilson, Hampton and Krupa first and foremost, but also the later sextet with guitar ace Charlie Christian. I'm not that keen on most of his big band recordings though, no problem with his clarinet playing, but the arrangements are..... well, not exactly Ellington.....too simplistic and much of the same in the long run. Artie Shaw's big band work, by comparison is really fascinating. His use of strings in a 30s big band setting works very well, he must have been a first at that. Some people prefer BG, some AS, and that's fine, I'm just grateful they left us so many great recordings for us to enjoy and be inspired by.
Pathik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2006-06-07 10:11
"In the end it’s all about the music. ".........I totally agree. Let's not forget Slam Stewart on standup bass.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
