 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-06-03 19:47
Anybody playing this ligature?
It comes with 3 pressure plates to add to the confusion. VD claims each gets a different "sound". True? Or bull?
B
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Author: clarinets1
Date: 2006-06-03 19:52
i use this lig, i love it. after experimenting with the different plates, i have found that i like the crinkled one best. also, talking to other players with the ligature, they seem to like that plate best too.
just my two cents.
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-06-03 19:52
Bruno,
There has been quite a bit of discussion on this topic, which you can find easily using the BB search feature.
Regards,
Hans (who uses three Optimum ligatures)
Post Edited (2006-06-03 23:23)
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-06-03 23:12
I have been thinking about trying one. Does WWBW sell them?
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-06-03 23:28
YCL-450 wrote:
> I have been thinking about trying one. Does WWBW sell them?
Nevr mind I just bought one from them.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-06-03 23:45
*****It comes with 3 pressure plates to add to the confusion. VD claims each gets a different "sound". True? Or bull?*****
True if your mouthpiece has concavity in the table. (Vandoren, Zinner etc.)
Bull if your mouthpieces has completely flat table. (E. Matson style etc.)
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: beejay
Date: 2006-06-03 23:47
Frankly, I can't tell any difference between the plates. It is a nice lig though, easy to use and it holds the reed firmly.
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Author: carrielj
Date: 2006-06-04 00:03
I also use the lig with the crinkled plate. I have never had the need to try the other two. Maybe next time I don't have anything else to do, I'll play around with them.
Carrie
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-06-04 00:45
Two design features make this my all time favorite: the pressure on the reed is directed straight down against the table, and the only contact the ligature has with the reed is with the plate.
In addition, when the reed is a bit "warped," I can just smash it down completely flat against the mouthpiece with this ligature. Sure, life would be ideal if the reeds were flat all the time but hey, nothing's perfect.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: Fred
Date: 2006-06-04 03:08
I had been playing my old Luyben when I decided to try my Optimum the other day. (I had left it in a different case.) I thought my R13 had gone bad on me - way too much resistance and I felt like I was fighting the instrument. Fortunately, I remembered the change in ligatures before I bent too many keys. Switched back to the Luyben and lived happily ever after. At least for now . . .
Funny . . . I don't remember having that issue with the Optimum the first time around . . .
I was using the parallel rails plate . . .
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Author: Kchui999
Date: 2006-06-04 03:14
I tried the optimum and all three plates for a few days. To me it sounded exactly the same.
Looks pretty cool, but i think my Harrison looks better
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-06-04 03:50
It isn't the lig that makes good your tootin',
it's the Fig that they put in the Newton.........
[The worser the pun, the better the fun]
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-06-04 04:04
I've played the Optimum for a few years. Near the end I wasn't happy with my sound, well, not really the sound but it felt like there is a problem with the attack of the notes and I assumed it was me or the reed. By total coincidence I reied a different ligature and suddenly the problem disapeared. A short time after I wanted to see if it was really the Optimum making problems, so I tried all plates, and compared it with several other ligatures. It turned out the ligature was the problem. I think it is that something happened to it during these years that made it bad, but I don't know what.
Anyway, I play the regular Vandoren ligature (called Master I think) which is much cheaper and it works much better for me.
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-06-04 04:23
Vytas -
*****It comes with 3 pressure plates to add to the confusion. VD claims each gets a different "sound". True? Or bull?*****
True if your mouthpiece has concavity in the table. (Vandoren, Zinner etc.)
Bull if your mouthpieces has completely flat table. (E. Matson style etc.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I find this observation to not necessarily be true. One speaks about a singular ligature as if it is THE representative ligature of that type. One needs to try many ligatures of the same brand to find the best one for you. Same with any piece of equipment.
The most important relationship is reed to ligature - regardless of table style. That doesn't mean that there won't be less of a difference with a flat table but the symbiotic relationship between reed and ligature can not be overlooked regardless of table style.
Interesting reading may be:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=58490&t=58401
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-06-04 04:28)
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2006-06-04 17:15
I also found that my Optimum ligature "changed" after several years. Now, it seems to hold the reed too firmly so that it's not as free to vibrate. Maybe it bent, although I don't remember any specific accident with it. Now I use my old Gigliotti plastic ligature. I tried my friend's Optimum, which is newer, and it sounds better than my old one. But, I don't want to spend all the $$ on a new one when I have a nice plastic one that sounds good and won't bend.
Lori
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2006-06-04 17:31
Lori, my wife and I have noticed the same thing. It is very easy to tighten the Optimum too much. Once you get past that, the form factor is pleasing and easy to use. The price however is enough to make me keep my day job. ;o)
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-06-05 20:05
Gregory Smith wrote:
*****"I find this observation to not necessarily be true. One speaks about a singular ligature as if it is THE representative ligature of that type. One needs to try many ligatures of the same brand to find the best one for you. Same with any piece of equipment"....*****
___________________________________________________________
Mr. Smith,
I did not mean to apply my statement to the Vandoren Optimum ligature only. It applies to ANY ligature out there.
By adjusting the pressure on the reed placed the concave table a different quality sound can be achieved. That's my point.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2006-06-06 02:00)
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Author: nickma
Date: 2006-06-05 20:41
yes, but all sound a little damped...I went back to the Rovner ED 1 - incomparably better imo - much more resonant.
Nick
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-06-05 21:44
Vytas said:
"Mr. Smith,
I did not mean to apply my statement to the Vandoren Optimum ligature only. It applies to ANY ligature out there.
By adjusting the pressure on the reed which lies on the concave baffle a different quality sound can be achieved.
=====================================================
Vytas -
Firstly, I'm assuming that you mean concave *table* and not concave *baffle* in the above statement.
While tightening the ligature is definitely going to effect the playing characteristics of the reed more-so with a concave baffle, it does not follow that there will be absolutely no characteristic response/sound changes with a flat table.
The very way that a ligature holds the reed with the different plates makes a difference on either type of table - but perhaps more-so with a concave table. And those differences will be even more pronounced when changing from one brand of ligature to the next (not just exchanging plates as in the Optimum).
Of course no matter the ligature (brand, or different ligatures within the same brand), the degree of tightness is of crucial importance. That is not in dispute.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-06-05 22:05
Mr. Smith,
Thanks for pointing this out! Yes, I meant *table*
____________________________________________________________
Bruno wrote:
*****"It comes with 3 pressure plates to add to the confusion. VD claims each gets a different "sound". True? Or bull?"*****
My answer:
True if your mouthpiece has concavity in the table. (Vandoren, Zinner etc.)
Bull if your mouthpieces has completely flat table. (E. Matson style etc.)
____________________________________________________________
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
Post Edited (2006-06-05 22:17)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-06-05 23:21
Vytas -
If you are making a categorical statement, why is it Vytas that I and my clients DO hear and feel a difference with a flat table? ( Tightness, looseness, different brands, different ligatures within the same brand, etc.)
Are you simply stating your opinion based on your own experience?
Gregory Smith
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-06-05 23:30
Aren't most of the statements made on this bulletin board opinions based on personal experience? I always assumed that to be the case.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-06-05 23:54
"True" and "Bull" seem to be fairly definitive, putting a new angle on things - ie. whether something in a posting was *meant* to be a statement of fact or simply one's own opinion.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-06-06 00:33)
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-06-06 01:31
Mr. Smith,
A person asked a short and simple question. I gave him short and simple answer. You found this observation to not necessarily be true. I explained the point of my statement:
By adjusting the pressure on the reed placed on the concave table a different quality sound can be achieved.
*Bull* part meant that the same effect cannot be achieved with a flat table. No more. No less and you seem to agree on this one.
"While tightening the ligature is definitely going to effect the playing characteristics of the reed more-so with a concave baffle, it does not follow that there will be absolutely no characteristic response/sound changes with a flat table."
That's all I wanted to say! I do not understand why you are trying to find things in my post that are not there.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Post Edited (2006-06-06 02:04)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-06-06 03:01
All I can do is simply state my experience and others can draw their own conclusions if they choose to.
For purposes of clarification, my experience has been:
Concave table: ligature adjustment/style produces more flexibility of response/tonal characteristics because the reed is allowed to "flex" into the concavity to much more varying degrees.
Flat table: ligature adjustment/style produces less flexibility of response/tonal characteristics because the reed does not "flex" into a flat table.
This does not mean that a change in ligature plates on the Optimum ligature using the same reed does not produce a different result, just a different type of result than is achievable on a concave table.
There ARE perceptible changes between the mthpc/reed relationship and a *flat tabled* mouthpiece WHEN:
1) Using different types of ligatures (because of the way that they hold the reed to the mouthpiece and their material composition, weight, etc).
2) Using different ligatures within a the same exact brand of ligature (they are not manufactured consistently enough to achieve this - plus the fact that a particular reed has been "fit" to a particular ligature, even within the same exact brand; there is a type of symbiotic relationship between the two.)
3) Specifically, using different "plates" supplied by the Vandoren Co. for their Optimum ligature (once again because the varying ways that they hold the reed to the mouthpiece).
Sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-06-06 03:03)
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-06-08 01:04
I got mine today and I really like it. I think it sounds better than the Rovner I have been using.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-08 01:50
YCL-450 wrote:
> I think it sounds
> better than the Rovner I have been using.
That's certainly strange....I put my ear next to a Rovner and then next to a Vandoren Optimum...
Didn't hear a thing...GBK
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2006-06-08 01:56
I love being able to position the reed or remove it with one twist of the tightening screw. But after buying it way back then, when I asked my teacher why he hadn't told me about it (since I found the sound was much better) he told me he hadn't said anything because he'd tried them and didn't like them at all. Maybe that's because he uses a different brand mouthpiece. So there you go, it's good that different products are available.
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Author: YCL-450
Date: 2006-06-08 02:04
That's certainly strange....I put my ear next to a Rovner and then next to a Vandoren Optimum...
Didn't hear a thing...GBK
Well maybe you should try sticking it IN your ear.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-06-08 03:03
YCL-450 wrote:
> Well maybe you should try sticking it IN your ear.
Lighten up...Equipment is a very small part of the total picture.
Lessons combined with serious practice time are a much better investment...GBK
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Author: pmgoff78
Date: 2006-06-08 20:59
I tried my standmate's lig. She loves that thing. Personally I prefer my Harrison...that I didn't pay for.
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-06-09 18:20
I'm not exactly certain yet, but I think I'm beginning to be sorry I ever asked my ligature question.
B.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2006-06-09 18:45
I've found that the Optimum makes my sound VERY compact and focused. So much so, in fact that It feels small. I prefer the EDII.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2006-06-09 18:50
I use three Optimums...always with the plate with four dots.
I use this one for a purely practical reason, the fact that the ligature marks each reed and finds the marks when you set the reed up makes me feel that you'll gain more consistency as the ligature is more likely to be in the same place on the reed and mouthpiece each time you play.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-06-09 19:00
Bruno wrote:
> I'm not exactly certain yet, but I think I'm beginning to be
> sorry I ever asked my ligature question.
What were your expectations?
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