 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-05-29 16:07
The other day, in my never-ending quest for a better mouthpiece-reed-ligature set up (that's all of us, right?), I dug out the C* Buffet mouthpiece that came with my R-13.
I have no idea how to categorize it, but first I noticed it was quite a bit heavier than the ten thousand Van Dorans I've accumulated, and also, that the rails, beak, and tip opening were nice and symmetrical. The MP material seems steel-hard.
Gave it a try with a Harrison ligature, then a Luyben holding an Olivieri #2.
Voila! What a terrific mouthpiece! Smooth, liquid, same nice tone carries right across the break, (altissimo's not harsh or squealy), easy blowing. Simply a GREAT mouthpiece.
Now I have to find out what makes it so great; opening, lay, type of material it's made of, chamber, etc.
I wonder if they're still available and are as nice as this 30-yaer old MP.
B.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2006-05-29 16:44
Does it really say Buffet on it ?? The only mp "system" using designations such as C* is Selmer's, indicating [to me] a "medium-long lay and tip oprning". The term "Steel Ebonite" I believe originated with The Woodwind Co., and I believe Conn mps were so-labeled. Who owns what now is quite a jungle. WW's were among the very best US mades for years, perhaps now exceeded by the High Tech makers at higher costs, of course. Glad you like it, I recently found that an older Mitchell Lurie mp was downright excellent with a Leblanc cl of the same vintage. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-29 17:01
Bruno wrote:
> I dug out the C* Buffet mouthpiece that came with my R-13.
Are you sure it is not a Buffet "C crown" mouthpiece? ...GBK
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-05-29 18:07
If it has a Buffet logo and its ligature line configuration is "one line up, three lines down" with the three down spaced fairly closely (about 3mm from the first to the third) it was very likely made by Chedeville for Buffet from a high-quality blank. According to Dave Tuttle, a dealer in Chicago who has sold many vintage mouthpieces over eBay and who appears to be an expert on them, Buffet refaced these mouthpieces before including them with their clarinets. Most clarinetists (who have reported) don't find them to play very well as received from Buffet but find them to be good candidates for refacing, including some work on the baffle. If yours plays well for you, that is a bonus. If the three lines are spaced a little further apart (around 4mm from first to third), it may or may not have been made by Chedeville. The jury is still out. I expect, from the time you bought your clarinet, that the Buffet logo is above the three lines. If it is below, it is an older model, almost certainly made by Chedeville. Congratulations on your find.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-05-29 18:12
You're lucky. I've bought several new Buffets over the years, during the 60s and 70s, and none of the stock mouthpieces (including the C Crowns) have been worth a damn.
However, at least the ones from the 60s had the Chedeville rubber and could be made to play well. I have one that Kal Opperman reworked into something really good. He says very few are worth the effort, though some are.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-05-29 20:40
Yes, it seems to be a C crown Chedeville, as mentioned above. Those are generally quite nice and should be a good choice for your "new" instrument.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-05-29 22:20
*****If the three lines are spaced a little further apart (around 4mm from first to third), it may or may not have been made by Chedeville.*****
I've never seen a Buffet/Chedeville (Buffet Crampon logo on it) with the three lines spaced a little further apart. The ones I've seen with this future had E&S logo and without a "France" marking on the left (bottom) side. Yes, they may or may not have been made by Chedeville. (IMO they ARE Chedevilles) Some of them (E&S) had A-framed chamber and turned out excellent players after refacing, baffle work and voicing etc.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2006-05-29 22:52
i got one that plays great too. came with my sister in laws r13 back in the 60,s
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2006-05-29 23:27
I have both of the mouthpieces I described above so I took a closer look at them (and double-checked to make sure) and both are marked Buffet. Both are also marked France though the France on the one with the wider spacing between the lines is lower on the blank (right at the bottom of the body of the mouthpiece) and slightly smaller/more lightly stamped. Both mouthpieces are the C facing, BTW.
FWIW, the one with the wider spacing between the lines has parallel side walls (but the window was cut imperfectly or modified later. Looking through the bottom of the mouthpiece, the line at the bottom of the window is not perpendicular to the two side walls. Rather, it rises at an angle from the left side wall to the right one). The mouthpiece with narrower spacing has distinctly angled side walls.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Bruno
Date: 2006-05-30 03:52
Note to Brenda: My horn is not a new acquisition. I bought it new in the late 70's in NYC. The MP I'm talking about came with it. I just never played it for any extended period until recently.
Here's a better description: I took a closer look.
The MP has the little Buffet oval with the words Buffet Crampon, Made in France, and the little lyre, just like each joint of the clarinet does.
There is one line engraved around the barrel near the beak and three lines closely spaced circling the barrel near the tenon. And yes, it IS a C-Crown not a C-star.
I never realized that the provenance of a simple mouthpiece could be interesting to anybody.
Anyway, I'm gonna play the hell out of it! I'm glad I found it again.
I'm just wondering if another would be available from Buffet Paris if any of us wanted one?
B.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-05-30 12:13
"I'm just wondering if another would be available from Buffet Paris if any of us wanted one?"
Highly unlikely - Buffet just bung a cheap plastic mouthpiece in with all their new clarinets of every model - these are only good for beginners, or used as door stops.
Treasure this one you have, the new ones are not a patch on these.
My R13 Eb came with the original ebonite mouthpiece (it's a 'B' facing - all markings as described in earlier replies), unfortunately the tip rail has seen better days - it looks like it's been dropped as there's a dent in it on one corner, though I'll clean it up (but I won't touch the table or rails) and stick a new tenon cork on t see how it compares to the 5RV I bought.
And thanks again to Malcolm Martland for the Buffet Eb barrel I just bought off him - it's looking pretty swish now I've redone the logo.
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Author: punkinn
Date: 2006-05-30 23:28
Well, you all have me curious now. I must go home and dig out my circa 1977 Buffet mpc and see if it's playable!
Nancy Revelle
Arroyo Grande, CA
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Author: punkinn
Date: 2006-05-31 16:13
......... and for the record, my stock Buffet mpc SUCKS! <ahem>
Nancy Revelle, happily going back to her vintage David Hite and refaced Blayman/Garrett mpcs
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2006-05-31 16:28
I got my Buffet in 1972. I was just looking at the mouthpiece that came with it and which I still use from time to time. It has one line up, three lines down, and the usual verbiage, and low and behold with a magnifying glass I found the C on one side and FRANCE stamped on the other side, so worn I could barely read it. I used this mouthpiece until a friend gave me a white Arbex which I found much easier to play, but alas, a tad sharp (the reason for his generosity). Back to the Buffet until I got first a Borbeck and then a Vandoren B45. Very interesting bit of history in my clarinet drawer. Thanks!
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-05-31 20:01
*****and for the record, my stock Buffet mpc SUCKS!*****
That is fair statement! Whoever finished these blanks did a very lousy job. I've never found one that played well without a new facing and major baffle work. Buffet mouthpieces that have "one line up, three lines down" with the three down spaced fairly closely are very nice blanks from the Chedeville Company.
1. Some of these mouthpieces have very wide throat. These mouthpieces are basically worthless because the mouthpiece lacks needed center.
2. Most of Buffet Chedevilles I've seen had narrow, parallel walls. When finished correctly they have very concentrated (focused/centered) tone.
3. The third group is with 'A-framed' side walls. These are the best IMO. When finished correctly they offer the best of both worlds: good focus, warmth and flexibility as well.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2006-06-15 03:46
Jack Kissinger wrote:
"If the three lines are spaced a little further apart (around 4mm from first to third), it may or may not have been made by Chedeville. The jury is still out."
____________________________________________________________
Jack,
I've found some evidence that Buffet mouthpieces with the three lines spaced a little further apart are actually Chedevilles.
Regards,
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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