 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sanya
Date: 2006-05-26 20:07
I have a problem that is very difficult to fix. I have good technique. I know all of my notes. I count well. I am a pretty decent sight-reader. My tone, however, is the most disgusting thing ever. I'm pretty sure that my crappy student clarinet contributes to at least a little bit of it because I have tried a less crappy student clarinet and I sound better on it, but of course, if a professional were to play on my crappy student clarinet, he/she would probably sound amazing still. I know that the way to get good tone is simply to practice. Nothing else can really do it, right?
Is there something I can do to speed up the process? That sounds so idiotic, but it's because I have my music exam coming up soon, and I'd like to sound decent, at least.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-05-26 20:18
One saying I've heard is, "Twice the air, half the volume." Putting more air through the mouthpiece while playing generally seems to sweeten up my sound quite a bit.
That and make sure that you don't pinch the emouchure too much. To 'unlearn' pinching the embouchure, I would take my right hand thumb and jam the mouthpiece up into my upper teeth (with a patch on). Seemed to keep me from biting down. Now it's become second nature.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-05-26 20:21
It might not be your instrument, more probably it might be your mouthpiece, the reed or the embouchure (or a combination of all).
What's disgusting about the tone? Does it hiss? Squeak? Buzz?
--
Ben
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Author: sanya
Date: 2006-05-26 20:24
Well, okay. I use a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece with Vandoren #3 reeds, and my embouchure seems to be okay, and I don't think I pinch.
It doesn't hiss, squeak, or buzz. It just sounds bad. It doesn't sound round or full or bold, but rather thin and too bright and too... annoying. It's not pleasing to my ears.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-05-26 20:26
I agree with Alexi, a good solid stream of air goes a long way to giving you a solid, projecting sound. Long tone practice will aid this process.
...........Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-05-26 20:28
It's not pleasing to my ears.
What happens when you record your work and then listen to the recored session? Does it still sound bad?
(depending on your condition, what you hear while playing can be quite different from what you hear just while, well, listening. I sometimes have a "stuck ear" (otite or so) and then I feel like singing along with headphones on)
--
Ben
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Author: hans
Date: 2006-05-26 21:20
sanya,
About 45 years ago, my teacher told me that, to develop better tone, I should do more practising at the extremities; i.e., altissimo, and lower chalumeau. Perhaps that will help you as well.
It may also be useful to listen to clarinet players whose tone you like and to try to emulate their tone.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-26 21:56
Just a wild guess here, but doesn't the combination of a B45 mpc and a #3 reed seem like it would create a setup where the player would be tempted to overblow (i.e., force) the tone, instead of letting the air carry it? Especially on a less-than-mellow instrument.
Sanya, have you tried other mouthpieces (with closer facings -- like the B5, or M13, or the Fobes CF line)? I found that changing my setup made an enormous difference in the fluidity with which I could produce my tone, and as a consequence, the attractiveness of the tone quality.
Just my .02
Susan
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Author: sanya
Date: 2006-05-26 23:11
Ben, it doesn't sound as bad when I'm playing, but when I hear myself played back to me, I cringe, literally.
Oh my gosh, Susan, I bought the B45 after confirming it with about twenty people on this board. I'm a mere student, going to university next year, and can't afford to buy another mouthpiece. I don't believe I'm overblowing, but I don't know. Is there another reed I should use with this mouthpiece that would help?
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Author: J. J.
Date: 2006-05-26 23:46
Definitely don't but another mouthpiece now, but expect and be willing to buy another one next year after confering with your teacher.
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Author: ClariTone
Date: 2006-05-27 00:23
Sanya
Perphaps you need to try a different style or strength of reed??? Try Vandoren V12's. They work VERY well with my B45 and might be just the thing your looking for!!! They are a bit thicker, so I'd say not to go over a 3 1/2 with your B45 (worked well enough for me!!!)
Generally a faster airstream will provide a centered, dark, projecting tone quality. Try to speed up your airstream a bit (if it doesn't feel like work when you play your clarinet, your airtream isn't fast enough!!!)
Also, how many cds of fantastic clarinet players do you own ??? It is important for younger players to get a good tonal concept from listening to as much music as possible (solo clarinet especially). Borrow a few from your local public library, instructor, band director, or a friend. Listen to them and try to emulate the tone of those players you like. You'd be suprised how much that will help.
There is no "quick-fix". It will take many hours of diligent practice. Best Of Luck!!!
Clayton
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-27 01:44
sanya wrote:
> Oh my gosh, Susan, I bought the B45 after confirming it with
> about twenty people on this board.
I don't remember that. The consensus on the BBoard was that a B45 isn't an especially flexible mouthpiece in general, and is probably not the best choice for beginners.
I think 99% of the advice on this BBoard is:
Try a large number of mouthpieces. They're all different, and anyone who makes an absolute statement about a particular mouthpiece is just plain wrong. We're all different, the mouthpieces are all different. There are a few generalizations that apply to beginning players and make some sense, but after a few years things are very different.
Bring another set of educated ears along. Your own will be influenced by things other than the sound as it appears to others.
Use the reeds you're already comfortable with. Small changes may be necessary, but a change from (let's say) a 2 1/2 to a 4 reed will complicate matters immensely.
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Author: sanya
Date: 2006-05-27 01:52
I'm not a beginner. You're right, no one made such a flippant remark which is to say that the B45 is perfect for me, etc., but I did make the decision to buy this mouthpiece because of research done on this board, as well as from conversations with my teacher and the store owner. I did try a whole lot of mouthpieces, most of them I don't even remember now, and ended up settling on the B45, and honestly, I don't think I made a mistake. However, that being said, it didn't improve my tone as much as several people (not on the board) said it would, which is kind of silly, I think.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-27 02:36
I dunno. But I do empathize with your (perceived) issue, Sanya. Was once in the same place, myself. Part of it was the instrument. Part of it was me. And the part of it that was me was the part that was trying w-a-a-a-y too hard.
In essence, there is a difference between playing an instrument, and beating it into submission.
I'm an oboist now, but the same issues that dogged me as a clarinetist resurfaced when I began learning the oboe. My teacher characterized it as an "aggressive" playing style. I call it forcing.
There is a way of blowing that just lets the air carry everything, and the tongue only intervenes on the breath to provide punctuation. (This is a good thing.)
But if your setup (or, in the case of the oboe, your reed) is not responsive, you are going to have to blow too hard to get enough air to get the tone going, and your tendency will be to articulate with a hard tongue and a lot of pushed air, with the effect that your legato is lost and the overall effect of your playing is somewhat disjointed and choppy, rather than sustained and lovely.
This may not be what you are dealing with at all. But it's what immediately came to my mind when you described your generally excellent abilities but poor tonal result. And when you said you were using a B45, which is notorious for being unresponsive, I said, "Aha!"
Maybe at least try coming down to a 2 1/2 on your reed? And check your long tones and tonguing. Does the air continue (largely) uninterrupted even though you tongue?
Susan
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Author: Duane
Date: 2006-05-27 23:23
I disagree with most of the comments. If you are playing a student clarinet, you need to upgrade to a wood (grenadilla) clarinet. Is yours plastic? If so, you are probably like me in that I was never satisfied with my tone until I bought a Selmer Centered Tone and then a Selmer 10G. My tone improved with the addition of a 6/6 Ralph Morgan barrel and a RM-06 mouthpiece. But the instrument is the key thing here. A good teacher can help you get to where you want to be.
Duane
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Author: sanya
Date: 2006-05-28 00:04
I agree with you, Duane. I mean, I know practice is key, and there's always room for more practice, but my crappy plastic student clarinet sounds terrible in general. I'm looking into a new (used) clarinet.
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Author: Phurster
Date: 2006-05-28 08:40
The perception of tone quality can be influenced by many factors. here are just a few:
The way you release the sound ie. the quality of your attack.
Intonation on long notes.
How even your technique is in fast passages.
Air support whilst playing.
Emphasising the correct notes for a given musical context.
The type of instrument and mpc you play on.
The concept you have in your head regarding what a good sound is.
So without hearing you it is very difficult to givee constructive advice. However the advice given above seems fair wise to me me. Listen to good players and copy them, play on agood inst and mpc as wellas reeds, focus on support of the air stream etc.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-05-28 09:13
...if everything else fails, videotape yourself playing, get published on mytube.com and everyone will find you oh-so-cute. Just a different way to stardom.
When I thought I sucked (in spite of blowing) I gave my instrument to my teacher and he sounded not all that different than on his RC. His comment was "Nice horn. I'm used to my Buffet keys, that's why I foozled here and there."
So, if your instrument is mechanically intact, you're better off searching for the mouthpiece/reed combo that best matches your physical constitution (embouchure, air support). I think that the rest of the instrument is of comparably little influence.
Just buying a new clarinet will only postpone that insight. I know that "if only I had...then..." feeling. It's an expensive delusion.
--
Ben
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-28 09:37
If the venting of the pads on a clarinet is too small, especially with a hardish reed, then I would EXPECT the player to regard his tone as suckful. Have you had your clarinet checked by a reliable technician who plays clarinet?
If it is not the clarinet, then surely the solution can be found by spending a little time with a trusted, capable teacher, rather than by guesswork from people who cannot hear and see what you are doing. There are just so many parameters that contribute to tone.
Post Edited (2006-05-28 09:37)
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Author: Alexis
Date: 2006-05-29 09:24
I disagree about moving down a strength of reed on the B45. I know it can be a pretty resistant piece sometimes, but I don't think we have enough information to say if that is the problem. B45's generally work with size 3 reeds (and size 3 and a half V12). You can force the sound no matter what amount of resistance you play with.
Getting a new clarinet will not necessarily solve your problems. It will probably improve your sound...and then maybe your improved confidence will improve your playing! But chances are if you have technical problems that improvement will plateau very soon.
Speak to your teacher, who hears you on a regular basis. Tell them what you perceive the problem to be and ask them how to fix it.
If you are worried about equipment: Get him/her to play your set-up to check the resistance, maybe ask to play on their's if yours is uncomfortable for them. See what the difference is. Try your mouthpiece on their clarinet.
I have no idea what your sound is like, so it really is difficult to help. I could say use more air....but maybe you are overblowing, which might exacerbate the problem, and you could overbreathe...which might make you tense
I could say, use faster air...but that could also make you tense
I could say try opening your oral cavity....but that could take the focus away from the tone
I could say buy a new clarinet...but that would make you poor....and not necessarily better...
What I will say, again, is that you should speak to your teacher, or even some other teachers about it. They can hear you play, and hopefully they will be able to help you.
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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2006-05-29 10:29
Alexis wrote:
>> I have no idea what your sound is like, so it really is difficult to help. I could say use more air....but maybe you are overblowing, which might exacerbate the problem, and you could overbreathe...which might make you tense
>> I could say, use faster air...but that could also make you tense
>> I could say try opening your oral cavity....but that could take the focus away from the tone
>> I could say buy a new clarinet...but that would make you poor....and not necessarily better...>>
Wise words indeed.
I recently bought some strong spectacles that I now keep in the case for fiddly work like adjusting reeds, rehooking springs, undoing screws...
It's amazing how much easier it is to do these things when you can SEE the results of what you're doing.
...funny, that....
Tony
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-05-29 16:57
Your set up is probably OK.
Why not get Larry Guy's book "Embouchure Building for Clarinetists." It has some details a lot of us overlook. It's not just for beginners.
I think anyone would find it helpful.
Good luck.
Clarinet Redux
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