 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bturner25
Date: 2006-05-25 11:36
Hello everyone. I've done a search on the forum, but haven't found the specific answers I need.
I am a young band director who has become disenfranchised with public education. I have been seroiusly considering auditioning for an armed service band, but I would like to go in with as much information as possible. I have a relative who plays bass in the navy band, and have talked to him, but I'd like some advice from fellow clarinet players. At this time, I don't intend on going for a "special" band, so what I need to know is:
1. Clarinet players are required to double on saxophone. While I can sit down and work out most band parts, I've never taken any sax lessons in my life! How good do I need to be on sax to get in? Can anyone reccomend an appropriate solo for tenor sax? I've inherited an old Conn transitional that I've had overhauled, I'm starting to get the hang of it, I think.
2. I know decyphering the military pay scale can be confusing, but around how much will I make? My current teaching gig makes me about 30k a year, plus benefits. How long will it take to get to that income level? I'm not addicted to money, but I like to eat regularly!!
3. What kind of physical shape should I be in before I go to basic? Being a high school band director, I've spent the last year putting in 14 hour days, 6 days a week. This has pretty much eliminated all free time for things like practice, exercise, martial arts, marriage (almost!). I plan on spending the next few months getting my body and mind back into shape, and I'd like to have a target to aim for.
4. What would be an appropriate clarinet solo for my audition? I could have any of the following prepared on fairly short notice, if you have other suggestions, please let me know:
Mozart k.622
Stamitz Concerto #3
Bernstein Sonata
Saint-Saens Sonata
Poulenc Sonata
Raboud Solo de Concours
ANY help you can provide will be much appreciated!
FMR young band director
B.A. Music Ed, Ball State University
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Author: Scotti
Date: 2006-05-25 12:40
You've become disenfranchised with public education?? They've taken away your right to vote on education issues???
Are you a felon...?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-05-25 12:55
Dear Felon,
The Navy Bands (other than D.C.) are more jazz band oriented, hence the doubling requirement. There are the usual ceremonial band gigs but...think jazz.
For the auditions try to use mixed meter pieces - more impressive - such as the Suttermeister Capriccio. Mozart is considered too easy for a good score. Maybe the Poulenc will do.
Hey, why not the Army?
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bturner25
Date: 2006-05-25 13:11
Sorry, maybe disillusioned or dissatisfied would be a better term to describe how I feel about the educational world today. No, I'm not a felon, and if teachers WERE in control of education, maybe the system would be in a different position. But that's a rant for another time.
I'm leaning towards the Navy because of my relative's experiences. He was in an army band prior to his navy gig, liked it, then got sent to Iraq for 6 months pulling guard duty. Upon getting back and finishing his term, he re-upped in the Navy to avoid that possibility. This was back in the liberation stage of the conflict, so maybe things have changed. I don't really have a problem serving in the military as a soldier, but if I'm going to Iraq, I'd prefer to have a tank or fighter wrapped around me!
FMR young band director
B.A. Music Ed, Ball State University
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-05-25 13:21
Dear Former Felon,
Actually tank duty is one of the worst in the service, heat , no airconditioning, no space to move around, your trapped in a can. But they do get some of the biggest cash bonuses I've ever seen.
In the Army you will get to your serving unit as an E-4 ($1400/mo after taxes) but that doesn't tell the whole story. You get medical, dental, housing (and extra pay if you have dependents), and a $7000 cash bonus upon signing for being a clarinet player. I assume the Navy would have a similar offer/pay structure, you'll have to hear from one of them.
Still, try for one of the specialty bands (also the Coast Gaurd Band - very good group). There you begin as an E-6 (more pay) and you never have to worry about having to move around every two years as in the "normal" service bands.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Bturner25
Date: 2006-05-25 13:26
Is there some reason we are making jokes about being (or in my case, NOT) a criminal? I fail to see the humor.
FMR young band director
B.A. Music Ed, Ball State University
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-25 13:40
Because you originally wrote "disenfranchised" which means having your right to vote taken away, which happens to felons. I think.
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Author: Bturner25
Date: 2006-05-25 13:44
Then please look to my later post, where I provided two words you may substitute in it's place. Could we please return to topic?
FMR young band director
B.A. Music Ed, Ball State University
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-25 14:08
Bturner25 wrote:
> Then please look to my later post, where I provided two words
> you may substitute in it's place. Could we please return to
> topic?
The topics go where they may (within reason) and asides lead to the levity on the BBoard.
You've already received some fine answers ...
As a Navy veteran - I suggest you make sure you have a good sense of humor before enlisting ...
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Author: Bturner25
Date: 2006-05-25 14:13
Yes, I have recieved some answers. I'd love to recieve more! And while I think a lot of things are funny, being called a felon by someone I don't yet know isn't one of them.
Getting back to topic, can someone run down the audition process for me? How similar/different will it be to the jury/auditions I am used to from college?
FMR young band director
B.A. Music Ed, Ball State University
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-25 14:16
Bturner25 wrote:
> Getting back to topic, can someone run down the audition
> process for me? How similar/different will it be to the
> jury/auditions I am used to from college?
Try using the search facility; this has been discussed recently (within the last six months). Also, contact the Navy band(s) you're interested in directly and see what openings they have/will have in the near future and the specific requirements.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-05-25 14:31
Let me mention that I've been playing with graduates of service bands and found them to be great musicians. They perform beautifully on their instruments, they know music theory, they can coach; and they can teach.
I don't know how well they played going into their service bands, but they came out with enviable skills.
Good luck to you.
Bob Phillips
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-25 14:31
Re: Sense of humor: As Mark says, having a good sense of humor (such as an appreciation of the numerous absurdities of life) is a prerequisite for maintaining one's sanity while performing military service -- or while playing music in general. Too many clarinetists take themselves too seriously, it seems to me.
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Author: Bturner25
Date: 2006-05-25 14:57
I agree 110%! As a public school teacher, I am INTIMATELY familiar with absurdity!! I suppose it's my personality type. I tend to be very conservative around new acquaintences. If people heard/saw the things that are going through my head right up front, I'd probably have a lot fewer friends!
How do you get a clarinetist out of a tree?
Cut the noose.
Ahh, I never get tired of that one.
FMR young band director
B.A. Music Ed, Ball State University
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-25 15:14
Bturner25 wrote:
> I agree 110%! As a public school teacher, I am INTIMATELY
> familiar with absurdity!!
No, you're not, you just think you are. Talk to me after your military service.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-05-25 17:18
Good thread so far.
The audution is, on the surface absurdly easy. They are usually only fifteen minutes or so. You are expected to be able to play ALL major minor scales (all forms of minor). Of those they will choose perhaps six (they always throw in some hairy ones). For me the trick is to play the scales as fast as humanly possible. The rating systyem bumps up drastically beyond 16th notes played at 120 per minute. Then the prepared piece should not be very long but try to have some lyrical and some reallly fast in it. As I stated before, mixed meter is looked at very favorably (Stravinsky Three Pieces also a good choice).
Finally, sight reading is put in front of you and this counts for 50% of the overall score. This is a bit misleading in that the whole "show" is colored by the speed of your scales (no matter what anyone else may say).
Again, the specialty band auditions (and results) are more similar to an orchestral audition and it is in those auditions that musicality counts more than the "music-by-the-numbers" approach.
REMEMBER.........
..............an acquittal is NOT a conviction!!!!
.............................Paul Aviles
.............................SPC USA
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-25 18:35
I spent 6 years in the Navy Music program so I have a pretty good idea of what to expect.....
The audition IS easy and they always need clarinets. The Mozart is fine for the entrance audition, and if you know your scales you'll be ahead of the curve.
Basic isn't fun, but they'll get you in shape pretty quick....they're used to taking people who are woefully out of shape and getting them stronger. The navy only has one place for basic, in Chicago, so try to avoid going to basic in the winter, if you can help it (I did basic in Orlando in the middle of summer....miserable).
After basic you'll go to the Army-Navy-Marine Corps school of music in Virginia Beach, Virginia. The base is home to a Navy SEAL group, so you'll probably meet some at the enlisted club though you can't tell by looking at them. The most important audition (and theory test) is at the school of music, and they'll give you a fair amount of time to practice before this audition. If you audition well enough (and know your theory) you won't have to go through the course. Don't worry if you don't know your way around a sax as they'll teach you. You are not permitted to double on flute.
As far as the theory goes it's a little bit off from what you learned in college. They use numbers instead of solfeg for sight-singing and they are heavy into jazz theory (tetrachords, scales, modes, etc.).
Once in a band you'll have to endure endless ceremonies, but going on tour is a lot of fun.
As far as pay, it sucks. If you have a college degree (presumably you do) you'll go in as an E-4. This makes your base pay around 1,600 a month. You'll also get a food allowance and a housing allowance if you live off base, but I've no idea what those amount to these days. As a band member you'll get a substantial uniform allowance but you'll use it on uniforms because you always have to look very sharp. I'm not sure what incentives they offer these days, so you'll have to check with the local recruiter.
Some recruiters won't know a thing about the music program, so you've gotta ask. There are musicians in the recruiter corps these days, so make sure you talk to them before signing anything. You can also talk to the nearest band for info (it's where you'll audition, anyway). The music program gets first choice of anyone entering the military (strange but true) so the band is a good ally to have.
Advancement is said to be rather slow, and it's mostly based on a test that measures how many things you can memorize. I have a photographic memory so I came up pretty quickly through the ranks.
When you join the military you incur an 8 year service obligation. Any part that you don't spend in active duty (you'll at least have to sign up for 4 years active) you'll spend in the Individual Ready Reserve. Being in the IRR use to not mean anything other than letting the military know where you were once a year but they have started calling up IRR folks for Iraq. While your active the Navy won't make you work outside your rating, but in the IRR it's open season. Keep this in mind.
Overall it's not a bad life, but you have to have the mindset to deal with the military. I didn't (I hated doing ceremonies) so I left. I have no regrets about joining and no regrets about leaving. Just give it lots of thought before you make the jump.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-25 19:09
Cuisleannach wrote:
> The navy only has one place
> for basic, in Chicago, so try to avoid going to basic in the
> winter, if you can help it (I did basic in Orlando in the
> middle of summer....miserable).
Chicago is no better in the summer; the heat waves coming off the grinder in the summer can kill ...
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Author: triddle
Date: 2006-05-25 20:27
Hello...
I am currently serving as a Navy Musician at the ATLANTIC Fleet Band in Norfolk, VA. Clarinet is my primary, with sax as my secondary.
If you have any specific questions, please send them either via return email to thomas.w.riddle@navy.mil, or you may contact the Navy Music Program Management Division (PERS-64) at 901-874-4316 and speak with Chief Musician Gordon Pantalone.
MU1 Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-05-25 23:01
Hello,
I'm in the Naval Academy Band. It's an excellent job, in my opinion. I would suggest speaking to someone in the military music field before speaking to a recruiter. I can't tell you anything about a non-premier band, but would be glad to answer any specific question about my band, if I can. I know the audition guys in my band are straight shooters and will answer any question you may have. If you want to visit the band's website, at: www.usna.edu/USNABand, ask for Ken Pfabe or Pat Sarracco. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. In my opinion, I would play something flashy for your audition. Of the pieces you mentioned, I would suggest Poulenc or Rabaud. Weber is always good.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: triddle
Date: 2006-05-25 23:21
Hi Ben...the mouthpieces are great!
I agree with Ben...don't talk to Navy recruiter yet. They just don't know the answers you are looking for.
I can answer your questions about fleet bands.
Tom Riddle
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-05-26 00:40
As far as the pay is concerned, 'tis true that joining the armed services isn't the highest paid work that you can find. However, you also have to consider the other benefits. The dependent allowance is one; few employers on earth pay you more just because you have a family, but the military does this and does it well.
Also to be considered is that you can (literally) bank your pay while in the military and have your base needs provided for in every way. You will be fed, you will be housed, you will be transported where you need to go (for your job), all without spending a single cent. Mind you, you won't be living the same carefree, "I want a burrito now" kind of life style, but it is possible.
(I banked my pay during my tour in RVN, save only one month's pay and combat pay kept for R & R in Japan. Even in 1970's terms, you could store up a pile of cash over a year's time when being paid E-5 or E-6 pay.)
As for the other factors, I would second the need to be able to keep a sense of humor about you while you are serving your enlistment. Even in the Navy and Air Force, military services more in name these days than in physical effort and difficult living conditions, you are sooner or later going to be rubbing up against some jack in office who has too much power and too little brains. When this happens to someone else, it's funny, but when it happens to you and you can't do a damn'd thing about it, it's quite another matter.
Stupidity is present everywhere in the military, whether in the form of painting rocks, starching uniforms that officially don't need to be starched, or pulling guard duty while carrying a shovel over a building that no person in their right mind would want to bother in the first place. If you have a low threshold for this sort of thing, then the military, even such a dilute military as is the military music of the Air Force and Navy, will be a trial for you.
I've seen trainees in some of my basic training cycles (I was a drill instructor when I got back from RVN) go absolutely bonkers when they were told that it was "lights out" at 9:00 PM. If they had troubles dealing with that, you can see why they had troubles with a five mile jog with boots and rifle each morning. And the saddest thing about it all is that now everyone who exposes themselves to the life military has both volunteered and signed up for an extended period of time in the bargain. (I only had to withstand a two year draft commitment.)
The military is all about working well with others, and sometimes the individualist (of whom the musical field is full of) doesn't suffer this sort of thing well. Unfortunately, there's no "trial period" during which you can opt out.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: clarinetfreak
Date: 2006-05-26 01:16
in terms of knowing how much you'll make, there is a website that tells you how much you'll make based on rank, year in service, and your location.
http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/pay/calc/index.html
I am also in the permiere band with Ben here in Annapolis. It's a good job!
Basc training is not very difficult physically. i recently went through bootcamp (June - August) and as Mark mentioned... it is VERY hot and humid there in the summer time. Long as you can do about 40 pushups and 50 situps and run a mile and a half under 15 minutes you'll be fine. By the time you are done with basic trainning you'll be in a lot better shape, than you'll gain it all back in about 6 months (as was my case). Obtaining success in bootcamp is all about just turning off your brain and doing anything they tell you to do, no reasoning just doing.
Good Times!
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2006-05-26 01:27
If you are in the United States Marine Band(Presidents Band), do you have to fight ever?
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-05-26 01:42
No, members of the United States Marine Band don't even go to basic training (they are the ONLY ones) but they do have to meet physical fitness requirements and learn the basics of military protocol.
..........Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2006-05-26 01:43)
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Author: William Hughes ★2017
Date: 2006-05-26 17:01
Brian:
Nothing to add to the fine responses and abundant expertise...just greetings from good old Muncie (home of the Ball State Cardinals) and best of luck to you.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2006-05-26 17:30
Hello,
You don't have to go to boot camp for the Coast Guard band either. I think they may have an opening now, or did recently.
By the way, I just learned from my auditions buddies here in the band that the Navy is now offering college loan repayment equal to what the Army has in the past. Something like $65,000. If I had it all to do over again, I'd have stayed in school, rack up a bunch of loans getting a doctorate degree, then would enter the service and let the government pay for my education. As it stands now, I'll probably start a doctorate while in the service (letting the government pay for it--tuition assistance), then finish it after I retire (using the GI Bill).
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Rick Williams
Date: 2006-05-27 17:44
All the services need good people but Terry Stibal hit the nail on the head about the ability to shrug of the BS.
I came out of the Navy as a LTCDR and have absolutely 0 knowledge of military bands but I have a fair bit of experience with military life in general. What you really must consider is that you will end up in situations that will drive you nuts, you will have superiors who are idiots and worse yet jerks and you will take it since the alternatives are even less pleasant.
If you have trouble tolerating public education just imagine if they had the aboslute power to pack you up with 12 hours notice and ship you off overseas for 12 months. Or you have a rare weekend off and have made big plans with the wife and kiddies only to have the CO come up with something at 1300 on Saturday for you to do, not 0600 so you can salvage the weekend but at 1 in the afternoon. Why, because he has a golf game that morning and doesn't want to screw it up.
Plus hopefully you'll enjoy sitting or standing in the broiling sun or freezing cold and rain for hours on end while you listen to some admiral or senator droan on for an hour because that is very much a part of military service. At least you'll have something to occupy you between the speaches...g
So talk to a lot of people and do a lot of reflfection because it isn't a casual decision.
Best
Rick
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2006-05-28 17:43
The commander has a good point that I'll amplify.
First and foremost, the military is there for one reason. You might lose sight of the fact through all of the glamor (and there is certainly a lot of that, both in the eyes of the non-military and in the eyes of the military itself), and through all of the talk about leaning a career and suchlike (and this is a central feature of the marketing to all and sundry), but the rational for all of the armed services is to make other (in the form of countries) do what we want them to do. And, some times that means shootin' and killin', often to both sides.
Military music is a very small part of the whole thing, just as military dentistry or military dependent housing each add their own small part to the whole. Push comes to shove, any of these three categories can become "dispensable" and the department they involve be pressed to other purposes. I've mentioned the problems of the military musician in the past (during the era of Napoleon Ier, they often acted as the stretcher bearer during the chaos of a Wagram or a Waterloo), but all of these "accessory" operations has been called upon to be something that they were not in the past. Ask the administrative remains that were dragged along into Bataan just how much their voucher or dental skills remained in demand at that point.
Well, I certainly don't see the cannonballs taking off the limbs of a saxophone section, or thrusting a dentist into the trenches anytime soon. However, consider the current problem in Iraq. We have armed services trying to accomplish a difficult task with too few resources, and the joint are beginning to creak.
We are fighting a war with a military that is woefully "light" on the means of war, and long on the likes of Special Services folks (recreation specialists, so help me God), librarians, auto mechanic hobbyist shops, and (yes) military bands.
They all serve a function in a broadly drawn operation, one with infinent resources, but in one pressured to do less with more, they tend to be obstacles. There is a major trend in government these days to do more with less, and to contract out all that is not part of the "core" purpose.
As a result, we have seen military cooks made into security guards protecting base camps over in Iraq while the hash slinging is done by folks hired by Halliburton. If that can happen, I think that few will argue that military music could not receive the same treatment. There's no question that feeding the troops is much, much more vital and core to the military's mission than providing the occasional ceremonial backdrop plus some free touring music for the general public.
Pay the contractor less (and not have to shell out all of those substantial "additional benefits" given to the military folks), or (unbelievable as it may seem) just replace those expensive bodies by a recording. After all, how many repetitions of "Anchors Away" can you get out of a single CD? Excellent bang for the buck, particularly for someone with an eye to the bottom line.
None of this denigrates military music, or those who provides it. It's just an unpleasant reality in a world when people want government (and by extension, the military) to do "more with less". If you join, bear in mind that things can change from one week to the next, that (in recent times) most of the changes have been in the wrong direction, and that even two years is a very long time.
One other thing: the tale of a broken enlistment contract (for an entry dealing with a particular job, or duty location or what have you) it a common one in the military. If you miss out on one element of your side of the contract, don't rely upon the military to uphold theirs.
Having said all of this, I freely concede that I had a wonderful time in the military. And, aside from my very few days as a nominal bandsman (4th Infantry Division, 1970), virtually all of my time was spent in the "big buck" job (as it was termed above; it wasn't then, by the way) of a tanker, followed by seven months as a drill instructor. I even gave up the nominal safety of the division band to join an armored cavalry unit (for various reasons that Mark would certainly not want me to go into here) and head back out into the dreaded "field".
Sure, there were a lot of annoying people (jacks in office, a couple of real sadists, more than a few incompetent individuals) encountered during that time, plus a substantial amount of physical discomfort and personal danger. But, I learned a lot about managing people (a very real world skill that will stand anyone in good stead), plenty about making recalcitrant machinery do what I wanted it to do, quite a bit about killing people, and more than a little bit about myself. It didn't do my tenor clef reading abilities much good, but all in all it was a positive experience.
But, I was in excellent physical condition from years of playing ice hockey, I had no care or attachments back home, zero dependents, and not a small measure of patriotism in the bargain. Plus, I was cynical enough, even at a young age, to deal with the irritations and distractions.
Many of my musical friends have proven to be too "fragile", too egocentric, or too much about themselves to function well in a military environment, at least in my opinion. (And that's considering that they won't be exposed to the real strains of military training, 1960's style, these days, and will never likely hear a shot fired in anger.) If you now find yourself quibbling over artistic differences with conductors, or of the "I only like to play Romantic period music" type, you better either have thick skin or be willing to change.
Only you know if you will be ready to accept the same sort of challenge. You will be guaranteed a lot of practice, and it's pretty unlikely that you'll ever face the conversion that my son's girlfriend did (from cook to security tower guard for two tours). But, put simply, the military is a crapshoot, and the odds are always biased in favor of the house in this game.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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