 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lee
Date: 2000-05-10 19:40
I recently shipped a clarinet out for a re-pad to a reputable repairperson that I have used in the past with good results. However, this particular time when I received the clarinet, several of the pads were not seated properly, and the pads were leaking. The pads were all new, and the ones that did not seat correctly were almost right, but not quite.
I immediately contacted the repairperson, and she said that the pads probably shifted during transport (The clarinet was shipped across country using UPS ground). She believed that the clarinet was probably left in the back of a hot truck over the weekend. She said this causes the glue to get soft and, as a result, the pads to lose their seat. She said to send it back and she will fix it at no charge.
My question is: Is the repair person being honest with me, or did she just have a bad day? Her work has always been fine up to this point. I'm just curious.
Thanks in advance,
Lee
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-10 20:16
No way to know for sure what happened in this case (although it's a big point in the repair tech's favor that she's re-doing the work gratis), but it's true that some glues soften at a low enough temperature for what she described to happen. I've heard stories of pads slipping and sliding during outdoor marching gigs in hot weather. Pad glues are all of the hot-melt variety and trucks parked in the sun in the kind of weather some parts of the USA have had recently can get incredibly hot -- the reason why going shopping and leaving a pet or a child behind in a closed car is so dangerous.
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-05-10 20:24
Well, here in Texas, my bet would be that the tech is right in this case. The glue they use on clarinets was made to melt at a fairly low temperature so pad adjustments can be done with the keys still attached without cooking the horn to death. If a closed car interior can get hot enough to burn your hands on the steering wheel in the late afternoon on a sunny day, then the back of a truck could get just as hot. It's fairly common to have the air temperature on enclosed areas (trunk of a car, aircraft unpressurized storage, poorly vented backyard sheds, etc.) to reach 140 degrees F on a hot summer day. That could easily melt the soft pad glue on your horn enough to mess up the pad seating.
That's one reason why your horn should not be exposed to the weather in either excessively cold, wet, dry, or hot environments. Use a simple rule of thumb. If you are not comfortable, your horn isn't in a good environment.
I'm just as guilty as the next guy for storing a horn in an unconditioned attic for years on end. Shame on me. Two things helped this bad situation. First, I use an attic vent fan to keep the temperature at or below 120 degrees F in my attic. Second it was a plastic beater of a horn, so no real harm was done. It played just as badly as it did 20 years ago. My good premium pro grade horn (i.e. expensive and sensitive to climate changes) has a special storage area in the best room inside my house. It's always around 75 degrees with about 40-50% humidity.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-05-10 21:05
On those occasions when I lived in unairconditioned houses, the summer temperatures sometimes (though it was very rare) would get high enough to soften the glue just enough that a pad would shift. So I've had to shift and reseat a pad now and then to correct the situation.
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-10 21:43
Lee,
It sounds like the tech who did your horn is a 'gem' of a person who cares enough about her reputation to fix the problem free of charge even though she had no control of the temperature conditions after the horn left her shop. I'd trust her assessment. That does happen. I'd also thank her profusely and use another carrier next time.
ron b.
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Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-10 22:10
I agree with every one else. I bet its not her fault. Even if it is if shes offering to fix it for no charge then you cant loose.
GRaham
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Author: Aaron Hayden
Date: 2000-05-11 00:11
Yes, that does happen with the modern hot melt glues. That's why a new instrument must be gone over by a in house technician before it is sold, no matter what type of service the manufacturers offer at there factories. Many times if I overhaul an instrument in the hot months or on marching band instruments I will use the old fashioned stick shellac, this has a higher melting temperature, but on the flip side, it can also become brittle in the cold.
Aaron
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-05-11 00:25
I agree with Aaron. I use different glues for different climates. I like to use the hot melt variety, but I do get one that doesn't melt at as low a temperature as the common variety one sees in hobby centers. I get mine from a repair supply house and it does work very well even in hot weather climates. However, I do like working with shellac. That was the type glue that I was apprenticed on and what I still like to use. It does have the down side of getting brittle and a pad will come out if the key cup suffers a glancing blown on a music stand,etc or in very cold weather. I would trust her and pay the extra money to have it shipped Airborne Express to avoid the same problems.
J. Butler
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-11 05:07
J. -
When you say shellac, do you mean French cement (white) or the clear or amber shellac? I know some repair people recommend the glue gun type but I've never tried it. I've repadded a couple of horns that had the pads stuck in with cork and pad cement(?). I'm supposing that's what it was. But, whatever it was, brown stuff, not one of the pads were seated right and cleaning that glop out the cups was a chore.
I'm an old guy and may well be way behind the times. I've never used anything but white French cement for pads and amber shellac for cork. There may be better products nowadays.
Can you explain a little more about using the hot melt variety glue? I'd like to try it since it may be better than what I'm using now. I live in central California where temperatures can soar to triple digits during summertime. Freezing temps are few here during winter.
ron b.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-11 05:10
On the darker colored cars in Texas, I've measured the temporature (my wife's suburban) at 180 degrees in the summer with the windows up and 120 degrees with windows down. The outside temp was 95 during this test. I use the high temp hot glue for this area and have had good results. On another note, my father had a big accordian gig to play on the north side of Austin that was handed to him by Myron Florin as he couldn't make it. He stopped just lond enough to refuel and make a "pit stop", locking the car to protect the instrument. Fortunately he arrived early at the gig and warm up and get aqainted with the other musicians for when he tried to play his new $5000+ squeeze box, nuthin'. All the reeds had fallen to the bottom (they use bees wax to secure accordian reeds). He frantically called my mom to rush him and old backup for the gig.
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Author: anon
Date: 2000-05-11 11:50
Carrying this string a little further. It would be better to have a caballero (sp?) case cover, i.e., a cover with a lot of insulation inside it to held protect the instrument from temperature extremes and when you store the instrument in your care (unavoidable sometimes) try to park the car in the shade, leave a window cracked and if possible put the case under a seat or maybe a bedsheet or something similar
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-05-11 14:24
Ron,
I apprenticed under a man name Bob Stailey and he taught me to take FLAKE SHELLAC and use it after grinding it to a VERY FINE POWDER. We had a method we used back in the 70's, but now I just put it in an old electric coffee grinder (Krupps) and make a pound at a time. Take the key and fill the key cup with the now powdered shellac and heat it over your torch until it bubbles, immediately put in the pad (watch the fingers!) and then place the back side of the key cup on a dampened cloth to cool it quickly. If done properly the pad won't come out and then you can reheat the pad cup to level and seat the pad. I've never seen anybody else use this technique except for the guys who worked in that shop.
I get my hot melt glue from Votaw in Springfield, Missouri. They have a glue they call "surduzstik" that supposedly melts at a higher temperature than regular hot melt varieties and so far I've had no problem with it. I place a proper amount of the glue on the back of the pad and then place the pad in the pad cup. It stays soft long enough to get the pad level and seated. I've had clarinets in my car on summer days when the temps get in the triple digits and not experienced a problem. I haven't left them there long and wouldn't want to tempt fate but the glue does hold up.
John
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-12 02:28
Thank you J. -
I've never seen shellac used that way but it sounds like it would work very well. I'd like to try that method. Now, if I can just find some flake shellac....
None of the local paint stores, furniture refinishers or anyone else I can think of here has any.
Ferree's lists it in their catalog but it's not on their price list - no pg.#, nothing. Guess I'll call them.
Thank you for the information, J. I learned at least one thing today.
ron b.
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-12 02:30
Sorry 'bout that. I meant that last post to read 'to J.'
ron b.
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-05-12 15:17
Again, I echo my point about temperature extremes for horns. As readers can see, even cold can affect the pads. I had some other goods air shipped across the country recently with nearly disastrous results. Apparently, the shipper air freighted the goods and they got extremely cold and extremely dry in an unpressurized cargo hold. I was lucky to have the foresight to check out the goods ahead of time to verify proper operation before I really needed them. So, the story in the posting above about the reeds falling out of the accordion should be a warning to all of us. What ever you do, try to keep the horn as comfortable as you are and you will usually do just fine.
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-05-13 03:08
Ed Kraus (PO Box 22205 Milwaukie, Or 97269-2205) WHOLESALE ONLY sells flake shellac. Allied Supply and Strege-Wuttke are also suppliers of flacke shellac.
J. Butler
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-05-13 08:09
Thank you again, J.
I'll check into those sources.
ron b.
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