 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2006-05-12 11:57
Dear Musicians, Pedagogues, bloggers,
Years ago one of my private instructors, frustrated with my lack of rhythmic consistancy, said, "Look, it's just one quarter note after another. Think linearly rather than up and down. I can play a quarter note now 'BAAAA' [he sings a note] and I could go out and have a sandwich, and when I get back the note will still be the same length, 'BAAAA' [sings note again]. Just string them together and that's a steady rhythm."
As he beat time for me after this example, he "beat time" by swooshing his hand back and forth from left to right (not unlike many of the instances in which Herbert von Karajan would beat a four pattern that way).
So it finally hit me that rhythm is the relationship of the last note you played to the one you are playing, compared to the length of the note you are about to play NOT how they fit in with tapping your foot (or to put it another way, the interval in which the note sits - for shorter notes).
I will go one further (just to really tick some of you off). Subdivision of poor rhythm will only yield smaller increments of bad rhythm.
I was inspired by a recent posting of Tony Pay's in which he spoke of the relativistic nature of music, the comparison of two or more things that one has in front of them at any given time. Certainly no one would say that "mf" is an absolute sound level, played the same loudness by the same person on the same instrument all the time - that would be absurd. In the same way, I would assert that even 60 beats per minute is only an indicator in that there will often be an ebb and flow to the length of that designated interval as one plays "MUSIC." Of course, to avoid self contradiction, I would clarify that this "ebb and flow" comes in a purely organic form (baaa baaaaa baaaaa) rather than an erratic, poorly executed form (baaa ba baaaaa baa).
To make this relevant, good rhythm comes in handy playing the clarinet.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-05-12 14:28
My brain hurts.
Lucky you. Here's the fingers, from all those crochets and semiquavers and how to squeeze them into a beat without falling into an ebbing and flowing rhythm.
--
Ben
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-12 14:33
tictactux wrote:
> My brain hurts.
> Lucky you. Here's the fingers, from all those crochets and
> semiquavers and how to squeeze them into a beat without falling
> into an ebbing and flowing rhythm.
rubato, rubato, rubato ...
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-05-12 20:32
Paul Aviles wrote:
"Subdivision of poor rhythm will only yield smaller increments of bad rhythm."
Thank you. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
I've been trying to find a way to put that into words for some time now.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2006-05-12 21:25
Is it possible (he asked, using what little was left of his brain after a LONG work-week) that over-analysis of the rhythm 'problem' may be itself contributing to the problem? Isn't rhythm something we FEEL more than THINK?
I'm reminded of an old schoolboy chum whose parents were both psychologists -- this poor kid spent so much time analyzing himself he made himself neurotic!
Whaddo I know.......I'm not even a real musician............
![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
Post Edited (2006-05-12 21:51)
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Author: donald
Date: 2006-05-12 22:55
"Whaddo i know..... i'm not even a real musician......"
that's not what i heard!
donald
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2006-05-13 00:01
Imagine the poor musicians that can't read music. Glen Campbell comes to mind. Probably thinks subdividing is dividing a large tract of land into smaller lots for houses.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2006-05-13 01:12
John O'Janpa wrote:
> Imagine the poor musicians that can't read music. Glen Campbell
> comes to mind. Probably thinks subdividing is dividing a large
> tract of land into smaller lots for houses.
Think of how much the thousands of generations of folk musicians and the thousands of generations of young children and their nursery songs have learned about rhythm without any written music at all. I think we classical types are too wrapped up in what is on the page. When students have rhythmic difficulty it is often most helpful to use the written rhythm as a starting point for helping the student undertstand with the body and the heart.
Barb
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2006-05-13 06:49
I think we are in danger of confusing two different things here.
One thing is the ability to understand what rhythm the composer wanted. In most classical music, this is quite simple. In jazz-inspired music it is often more difficult. Give me a classical piece and I can nearly always sight-read the rhythm; give me a jazz-inspired piece and I have to stare at it and sing it and try it real slow against a metronome.
The other thing is the ability to reproduce that rhythm accurately under the stresses of performance, adding rubato only when it is consciously required, not by accident.
If my teacher says to me "those semiquavers aren't even" then the cause isn't my failure to understand the concept of even semiquavers, nor my inability to hear the difference between even and irregular notes when someone else is playing. The problem is my inability to hear defects in my own playing; I'm so wrapped up in the process of producing the music that I don't listen critically enough. On the other hand, if I'm trying to play a jazzy piece, and my teacher says "that rhythm is wrong", then the problem is most likely that I am failing to read and understand the rhythm.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: eskil
Date: 2006-05-13 18:04
This is interesting. In my opinion, music is very seldom supposed to be played mechanically, with exactly the same length to your quarter notes. There's always a little nuance to it.
I still remember that odd feeling I got after having played for a year or so - struggling to play in rhythm without sounding mechanical - when I suddenly got the feeling I was rowing a boat, dipping the oars down without splashing, and using just the right amount of force to make the boat keep its leisurly speed through the water, without slowing down or speeding up.
I suddenly, for the first time, felt what the natural speed or flow of the music was, just as you will feel what the natural speed of the rowing boat is, if you have the right feel for that activity. I sort of realized that I was supposed to play the clarinet without splashing, and to put a little extra muscle in when the wind and waves tried to slow the music down, and to ease up a little when the music was going downwind, sometimes using longer strokes, sometimes shorter, always trying to make the music keep its natural speed. So, even if my parents weren't into music, at least they had a rowing boat which I used a lot as a kid, and it seems that it gave me some sense of rhythm. Rowing is, after all, a very rhythmical activity...
That doesn't mean I don't do a lot of splashing on the clarinet - but at least I know that I do it, and I try and correct it. Lifelong pursuit, it will be, doubtlessly!
/E
P.S. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, I guess you're not very good at rowing a boat! :-)
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-13 18:35
I feel the following:
Linear playing works well in a group, as it helps the music blend together. However, if you are a soloist, or the only one on a part; you should play musically. In some cases, being musical could mean straying from the musical line a bit, that is fine (as long as you do not stray too much).
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-05-13 18:39)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2006-05-13 18:51
ElBlufer wrote:
> However, if you are a soloist, or the only one
> on a part; you should play musically.
The accompaniment (orchestral, piano) would be horrid if not played "muscially", don't you think? Linear does not imply "non-musical" ...
> In some cases, being
> musical could mean straying from the musical line a bit, that
> is fine (as long as you do not stray too much).
What, precisely, do you mean? The musical line is paramount for the soloist; perhaps you mean rhythmic variation (rubato), tonal variation (timbre, color), amplitude variation (loadness, dynamic), note length (legato, staccato) or pitch variation (vibrato, glissando)? Or combinations of these and probably more I've forgotten?
Or do you mean more like jazz and improvisation around the musical line? If you know something of music history and performance practice then it may make sense in a classical concerto.
Or do you mean phrasing, where perhaps all of the above are used to make "sentences" to illustrate a musical "story"?
Or perhaps you mean something quite different? That would be fine - let us know what your thinking is.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-13 19:01
Mark, I mean a little of everything you just mentioned, I just didn't know exactly how to put it in a post. When I was refering to straying a bit, that was directed at a soloist, where adding a 1/4 beat to one note and subtracting it from the next might make more sense to the soloist.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2006-05-13 19:58
David Spiegelthal wrote,
>>Whaddo I know.......I'm not even a real musician............
My spies at Bangkok Blues say you are, too.... (I mean the human spies, not the cat that owns the dumpster out back. The cat that owns the dumpster says nobody who plays the clarinet is a musician, but it could be worse, because the ones who play the drums aren't even human. Still, that dumpster serves the best leftovers in town.)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-15 04:47
If you play it wrong once it's a mistake..........play it wrong twice and it's jazz
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