 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-06 07:21
Well members of the BBoard, my GAS has just went up. I just purchased a Walter Grabner mouthpiece, and will hopefully recieve the two trials in the upcoming week. Now, here is my delema: what is the best way to test a new mouthpiece? What is the best way to decide between two mouthpieces? During the time I have with both mouthpieces, I will be able to practice in my home, in the band room, and with the pit orchestra in Auditorium at our school. I will see my instructor one to two times during the trial period. This will be the first hand crafted/finished hard rubber mouthpiece, and I can't wait!
EDIT: I also just realized that I am out of mouthpiece patches, as it has been over 6 months since I used a mouthpiece that needed one. What should I use as a temporary mouthpiece patch when the mouthpieces arrive?
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-05-06 07:22)
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-05-06 14:51
Just a couple of things I wanted to mention. I am sure others will have additional suggestions.....
Walter's mouthpieces do come with a patch; although I am pretty sure it is a piece of electrical tape...which works to a degree, but if you are really going to give these mouthpieces a good workout you will want to add a couple more layers on top of that just to be safe. You can't return the mouthpieces if you damage them.
Or you can just go down to your local music shop and buy some mouthpiece patches. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
Also, if you use a metal ligature it would not be a bad idea to put a piece of tape on the front of the mouthpiece to protect it from scratches.
It also makes sense to me that you should not use a reed which has already been broken in and adjusted to another mouthpiece, or it won't be a fair test. If I were testing a new mouthpiece, I would start with a brand new reed, play it, make any needed adjustments with my ATG system, play it again, adjust again if needed, and so on, and then I would have a reed that worked well with that particular mouthpiece. I would definitely use a different reed on the second mouthpiece and keep track of which reed goes with which one.
As far as deciding between two mouthpieces, this is probably pretty subjective, since a mouthpiece that works great for one person might be horrible for the next. A big part of it (for me) is how it feels and responds and whether I am comfortable playing it. But then I can play just about any mouthpiece as long as it has the right reed on it, so a lot of that would have to do with making sure the reed is balanced! You can get pretty lousy results from a great mouthpiece if you have a bad reed on it.
You want it to respond easily when playing very high and very softly and should be able to make it project when you want/need to.
I would HIGHLY recommend testing them with a tuner also!
Post Edited (2006-05-06 15:39)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-05-06 15:39
Other than the advice already given, let me relate a little story that my teacher told me when I went out mouthpiece hunting (this was in the days of Kaspars being plentiful and available).
Play one mouthpiece for a very short while and then try the next one. The next one will either play better than the first one or it won't.
It's really that simple. It's not a matter of a little of this or a little of that. Does it help accomplish the fundamentals correctly (good sound, response, intonation, etc)? Your ear will certainly guide you which mouthpiece do these things best - along perhaps with a bystander who's ear you trust.
At first this advice may sound flippant but it was the best piece of advice my teacher ever gave me when it came to testing any piece of equipment - or for that mattter while making mouthpieces.
In other words, trust your first impression. When trying equipment, it's relatively easy to lose the forest for the trees.
Good Luck!
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-05-06 16:19)
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-06 16:46
Thank you guys very much for the suggestions. I will try to out and find some mouthpiece patches (If I can convince my dad to stop at our local music shop), and I will make sure to put a strong emphisis on my first impression.
I do not adjust reeds, but I will make sure to try both new and old reeds on both mouthpieces to get a good feel for how reed friendly both mouthpieces are.
It was mentioned that I should place tape over the mouthpiece if I use a metal ligature, and I was wondering if I should do the same with a pomarico light ligature.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2006-05-06 18:37
Quote:
It was mentioned that I should place tape over the mouthpiece if I use a metal ligature, and I was wondering if I should do the same with a pomarico light ligature. IT wouldn't hurt to be safe, just in case.
And I like Greg Smith's advice above. Trust your first impression. Usually, it's correct. One mouthpiece will either play better than the other, or it won't.
Also, when trying out mouthpieces, I usually try to play a little bit of a technically dificult, fastpaced piece. To check it's articulation, how easy it is to control over breaks and from note to note. And the I play a section of a more lyrical passage to test it's depth of sound and how it sounds from pianissimo to fff.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2006-05-06 20:55
Do a blind test if you're indecisive. Get your instructor or whomever to pick one of the two at random for you to play, then the other, not letting you see the logo or any distinguishing marks.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: ginny
Date: 2006-05-07 17:28
My son and I have done 'double blind' tests. Neither of us knew which randomly select mouth piece he was playing and then we separately rated them.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-05-07 19:53
I add one other thing to those already mentioned. I always try the mouthpieces for a little while each on some of my current music, then I turn on the tuner and watch to see what happens up and down the scale.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-07 22:27
Thank you for all of the comments. I will make sure to do most of what is said here, as it will help me select the best mouthpiece for me and my setup.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-05-07 23:19
You're always going to sound like yourself, and your embouchure, oral cavity and breath are very adaptable. As long as a mouthpiece is responsive and comfortable to play, you can learn to play it.
Therefore, you need to look for the things that are built in, which you can't do anything about.
Mouthpieces can play out of tune, just like clarinets. The first thing to do is play slowly, with a friend watching a tuner, to weed out any mouthpiece that has bad notes or bad intervals.
At a recent workshop, Ron Reuben (the recently retired bass clarinetist of the Philadelphia Orchestra) said that he checks any kind of new equipment by playing wide intervals, very slowly. The good stuff lets him connect the intervals seamlessly. Try the Pines of Rome solo, or Rose 40 #1.
He also said that a good mouthpiece lets him put plenty of brightness in the tone -- high partials that give "ring" and carrying power.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2006-05-08 03:19
For once, I will disagree with Greg Smith. It has to happen once in a while...
I find sometimes you have to discover a mouthpiece and that takes time. I bought mouthpieces that felt great when first tried and ended up in my bottom drawer, because I found them limiting over time.
Of course, somebody at Mr. Smith's level can probably tell right away if the mouthpiece has what it takes for him to be happy, but I am not this lucky.
I find it takes time.
One thing to do is to break in new reeds on your new mouthpiece. The two things I look for are intonation and resistance.
For intonation, I play harmonics, start with low C, don't move a single finger and overblow to G then E then A, if they all come out and are in tune it's a very good sign.
Resistance has to do with the amount work I have to do to get a sound out. I don't like to bite, but I like a certain amount of back pressure. I feel I get more to work with. This is where things start to get personal and you have to decide what feels right for you.
Brad Behn, a fine mouthpiece craftsman, has some tips on how to select mouthpieces on his website:
http://www.behnmouthpieces.com/selectingmouthpiece.html
Although remember, this is also the site on which he sells mouthpieces so his notes should probably be taken with a grain of salt.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2006-05-09 01:09)
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-05-08 04:50
Sylvain -
Actually, I find us in little disagreement.
I offer a two week trial period with all of my mouthpieces for a reason - with extensions if my client expressly needs it. I also offer no advice on trying mouthpieces at my website since I do most all of my advising via personal consultation when I speak directly with my clients. This includes a selection process for reeds that may work with my mouthpieces amongst other things.
I advise much the same that you and others have - AFTER you've eliminated the mouthpiece(s) that do not make as good an initial first impression.
Ultimately what matters most is how the mouthpiece actually plays in the context of the ensemble. It literally takes 2 minutes to select one of two mouthpieces in the ensemble rather than at home in the practice room while relying on theory.
Of course that kind of elimination process is somewhat different than the elimination process I've already posted about. But the principles are exactly the same. Taking one's time to check the fundamentals (which I've already described) are fine in the practice room. Most mouthpieces will be about equivalent in that regard if the maker is worth their salt.
But ultimately, throwing them overboard for a sink or swim test (as in either this one or that one) is the only assured way to select a mouthpiece. Otherwise one will indeed end up with a desk drawer - or worse - with mouthpieces that play well....in theory.
BTW, what Ken Shaw describes has everything to do with how well the mouthpiece has been voiced to begin with. Voicing of the mouthpiece is where the *mechanics* of making mouthpieces end and the *art* of making mouthpices begin. After the initial selection process, it takes about 6 months to get used to a new mouthpiece in order to realize it's full capabilities.
Gregory Smith
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-08 05:14
I appreciate all of the comments. Shouldn't be more than a week until I have these mouthpieces in my possession. It's great to get advice boh from those that have tried mouthpieces, and those that make quality mouthpieces.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: b.roke
Date: 2006-05-08 07:15
i tried 2 of walter's mouthpieces 5mths ago. because you have 2weeks and only 2 mpc's you can try them every which way. i found that the one i kept was the one that grew on me the more i played it. it wasn't the 1 that i was initially drawn to.
2wks is enough time to determine which of the 2 is best for you. your decision then is to decide if that 1 is better than the 1 you already have or 1 you may get in the near future.
good luck - it's fun
steadfastness stands higher than any success
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2006-05-08 07:48
"...your decision then is to decide if that 1 is better than the 1 you already have..."
-----------------------------
Without unnecessarily belaboring the point, this is essentially what I have expressed in my previous posts.
Gregory Smith
Post Edited (2006-05-08 07:49)
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-13 21:14
I received my two mouthpieces today, and here are my thoughts so far:
Both mouthpieces are excellent. They are both free blowing, allow for good intonation and articulation, and allow for a good tone. Here is my dilemma; one mouthpiece is a little easier to play, and I really like the sound, but upon recording a short excerpt of a piece (on my cell phone) of two pieces, the other sounds better. The other is still very easy to play, and enjoyable to play. Over the next 20 days (or less) I will be deciding on a new mouthpiece, wish me luck on picking the one the is right for me :D.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
Post Edited (2006-05-13 21:15)
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Author: D
Date: 2006-05-13 22:37
Dont forget to do a couple of runs of all three mouthpieces (this includes your current one). If you don't know which you are playing, and a few listeners don't but you all pick out the same one then the choice is made. Fingers crossed it is your existing one and you wont have to spend any money!
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2006-05-13 23:38
Attachment: front.jpg (56k)
Attachment: back.jpg (57k)
I will make sure to test it while others are listening (my parents, peers, and clarinet teacher).
Also, I was wondering if I have taken enough precautions to make sure that the mouthpieces stay free of scratches/teethmarks. If not, what did I forget?
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2006-05-14 13:08
Disclaimer...I sell mouthpieces on that auction site that shall be innominate.
Funny thing happens....I have chronic GAS and a hoarde of great old "becs"
(French for mpx) and when I go back to them after a long time, and have a good bunch of reeds...they all seem better than when I first auditioned them.
Conclusion....the more you ** play**, the better **any** mpc becomes. And...always use good reeds.
Specifically to this thread, I went to my Grabner K13 last night ,which is decidedly a differnt bird than the Behn H. Ched that I am using, and guess what...It played great, easy, and colorfully. The rails are different, as are the innards...the biggest diff. was in the contour of the beak. I still sounded like ME, but that is a whole nother thread which has be rehashed.
Why did I use the Grabner last night? Just for fun, and another reason to be stated at a later date. (I ended the evening back on the Behn, but that does not negate the quality of the Grabner).
Maybe Bonade was right.....go get the boat and get to a lake...you know the rest.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2006-05-14 20:06
Hi all -
I don't get to the BB as much as I would like. There just don't seem to be enough hours in the day. But I thought I would comment on Elliot's issues:
He said:
"Here is my dilemma; one mouthpiece is a little easier to play, and I really like the sound, but upon recording a short excerpt of a piece (on my cell phone) of two pieces, the other sounds better. The other is still very easy to play, and enjoyable to play."
Elliot -
Somewhere in your head, is a sound, a tone quality that you want to produce - in other words, your ideal tone.
Pick the mouthpiece that gets you closer to that ideal sound. If neither mouthpiece gets you there, send them back and ask for others.
Ease of playing is, of course, very important. Sometimes, however, you need to step up to the challenge of a mouthpiece that is different, to see where it will lead you.
Unfortunately, this sometimes seems like a journey rather than a destination. But maybe that's a good thing to.
Walter Grabner
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Author: David Niethamer
Date: 2006-05-16 03:21
A former student of mine who went on to another teacher in grad school told me an interesting mouthpiece trial routine that he learned from his new teacher. Open a box of reeds, and pick the best three or four on your current mouthpiece (but don't play them too much).
Use them to try out the new mouthpieces. Then take the new mouthpiece of choice, and open a few boxes of reeds. See how many reeds will work out of a box with minimal adjustment. Reed "friendliness" is an important aspect (although not **THE** most important aspect) of a new mouthpiece.
BTW, don't go by what your cell phone tells you for sound. Recording the clarinet accurately is tricky business with great recording equipment. No cell phone would be considered even adequate recording equipment.
Which leads to the next point - bring a set of trusted other ears. How a mouthpiece feels and how it sounds are often different. The right resistance might be a good thing, and the sound might be much different 10 feet away. Ease of response is not everything (though to a certain degree it can be helpful).
David
David
niethamer@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/dbnclar1/index.html
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