 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BornAgainClarinetist
Date: 2006-05-04 20:37
Hey Everyone,
I'm not looking for advice on my clarinet playing. So kindly as I would appreciate your comments like "quit biting" im, so lets not go there.
[ You can ask, but don't get upset if some of the answers "go there". It's a risk when you post messages to the world. mark C. ]
I however, would greatly appreciate ideas on how some of you have found ways to stop your lower teeth from diging into the inside of your mouth. I normally use paper on the my front lower teeth but I would like a better alternative.
Thanks in advance!
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Author: spiderbelle
Date: 2006-05-04 22:00
In the meantime, while you wait to get a custom teeth guard, here's a quickie solution. Go get Ezo denture cushions from a drugstore (under $5) and cut them into thirds or quarters. Take one, bend it over your bottom teeth, and voila -- the thin wax coating quickly forms to your teeth, and the thin fabric in the middle keeps you from biting through.
It definitely works. Learned about this from some fellow clarinetists during some grueling rehearsals and it saved my lip. Plus, a box of these cushions cut into thirds/quarters will last awhile.
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2006-05-04 22:06
Go to the dentist have him make a mold your lower jaw. Then have him make a thin rubber/plastic like covering that goes about 3 teeth deep on both sides
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Author: RobinEarle
Date: 2006-05-04 23:10
Dear BornAgainClarinettist
Having experienced the same problem the way I solved it was to develop the technique - locate the mouthpiece against the top teeth, pushing it gently up to create a differnt bias and not relying on the lower lip to become a general dogsbody taking charge of the reed, mouthpiece and clarinet. The sides of the mouth can also give you plenty of support so that the sensitive lower lip can begin to feel the reed and not the teeth. If you are willing to rethink the technique you may surprise your self, the human body is remarkably adaptable.
Also, spend more on reeds and only use reeds which work for you. You cannot work with every reed, and if you try, and belive me I have done, you will put an unneccessary strain not only on your lip but your whole body.
and becoming depressed, and putting a strain upon those around you!
robinearle22@gmail.com
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-05 03:46
I find that playing double-lipped prevents biting (oops, I went there) and generally helps the lower lip manage better. Bad side is it's hard to do standing up, as it helps to support the instrument on the knees. Whe I'm having to do endurance work I will alternate between single- and double-lipped embouchure. Works for me........
-Randy
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2006-05-05 04:12
I use a band-aid. I fold the sticky ends over the pad, then fold it in half. Voila - instant tooth cushion, and you can get dozens of them for only a couple of dollars.
I don't like the way the EZO pads dissolve in your mouth. Yucky. Paper is even worse, plus it offers very little cushion.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2006-05-05 07:30
Beginning to play again a few months ago
after many years my uneven lower teeth
were giving my lower lip trouble too.
To help the problem I bought one of those
mouth pieces kids use to protect their teeth
when playing football etc. You can cut a
small piece from it, heat in hot water, flatten
it out when still warm, heat in hot water
again, press and mold it over your lower teeth
and you've got a mold about as good as
a dentist could do and you can reheat it again
anytime and get a closer fit.
I got a light weight one kids use, the ones
pros use are too heavy and too expensive.
It sounds unlikely but the instructions are on
the package and it really works and they last
I guess forever.
I don't use it regularly any more my old
embouchure has started to come thru for me.
Larry Guy's book was very helpful.
Clarinet Redux
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Author: MSK
Date: 2006-05-06 01:00
Are you using regular paper or cigarette rolling paper? Folded cigarette rolling paper (available at tobacco stores) tastes OK and doesn't fall apart when it gets soggy. The hard part is buying without embarassment. The person at the checkout counter gives you that look that says "I know you're rolling joints pothead". To reduce that embarassment, I get about a five year supply at one time, preferably in a neighborhood where no-one I know frequents.
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Author: SimpsonSaxGal
Date: 2006-05-06 04:49
I buy a roll of medical tape, and tear a bit off each time I practice. I fold it in half so it's not sticky.
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Author: keyoil
Date: 2006-05-06 21:56
Haven't heard of the band-aid idea. I'll give it a try.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2006-05-07 03:04
I'll back up Randy with the double lip idea. I did a research paper over single vs. double lip and the advantages that double lip provides. Now, Keith Stein and Tom Ridenour along with Carmine Campione all conclude that double lip is more natural. We won't go there, but they point out that if you practice double lip 5-10 minutes a day, it will drastically improve anyone's single lip embouchure. I did this for a month and it really did help me and I should actually start it up again.
Now, your problem is that your lower teeth dig into your lower lip. The cool thing that double lip embouchure is that it promotes a symmetry of the lips. Most people cannot tuck much upper lip under their upper teeth and so our lips must support bisymmetry and so the lower lip cannot be tucked over very much either. It becomes very difficult to dig into your bottom lip this way. This was the argument of Campione by the way...
Good luck! I hope this was clear! Let me know if you would somehow be interested in reading my paper!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-07 10:10
If one practices irregularly, then the lip tissue remains (or returns) to a soft state such that extended playing can attack abd hurt the lip. Surely it is all very like the way the body develops callouses, eg following blisters on the hands, to protect against tissue attack.
With a lot of repeated playing, the lip tissues probably firm and toughen up, resulting in no future lip damage, in spite of applying the same support from the lower teeth as the player did before, causing the lip damage.
The lip problem is probably produced by a pattern of playing that is spasmodic in some way. We cannot all practice x hours per days, many times per week!
I rather doubt that double lip can overcome the problem for a spasmodic player! It requires a lot of tone in the lip tissues.
IMHO
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-07 10:18
I made my own acrylic (Plexiglas) cover for my lower font teeth. It is fantastic!
I started with a block of material. I placed carbon paper over my teeth and bit on the block. I carved away the marked area. (A Dremel would do) I repeated this many times , while at the same time shaping the outside of the block as well. The result was a custom made cover, of material about .5 - 1 mm thick, that clipped neatly over 4 teeth.
My dentist retorted that he could easily made it with a quick casting technique. I reminded him that it would have cost 1000 times more, and that I would not have the satisfaction!
When I double on clarinet in a show, with only a few weeks rehearsal, when I have not been playing clarinet for weeks or months, I sure do need this aid by opening night. However by the end of the season, I am fine without it.
I write this to back up my comments in my last post.
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Author: frank
Date: 2006-05-08 02:03
I recommend instead of treating the symptom, cure the problem. You are obviously biting too much. I find most people who even need paper or other mouth appliances on their bottom teeth are playing wrong. The tell tale signs are usually playing sharp, thin sound, and sore lip! Work on the emboucher musculature and eliminate the crutch.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2006-05-08 07:12
Frank, how do you explain that many players who use papers and other protective stuff on their teeth don't play sharp or with a thin sound, and actually sound very good and are excellent players?
As for statistics - Almost all (if not all) people I know who use some sort of protection on their teeth are playing very right, and almost anyone I know who is playing wrong doesn't use protection on their teeth.
I don't belive it is as simple as 'if it hurts your lip you are playing wrong'. This is at least as individual as a choice of mouthpiece, if not more. I have not used anything for the more than 15 years I've been playing, but considering to get one of those things like John Moses recommended. I have one tooth in the middle instead of the normal two, which makes it more problematic.
Post Edited (2006-05-08 07:15)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-08 10:23
I agree, claribass.
One only needs some experience of kissing a variety of people, to know that the firmness of lip tissue varies enormously. So does the firmness of muscle support.
Add to that the fact that experienced players may well have thickened, toughened skin inside their lower lip, from their forgotten earlier days of the lip's new experience of excessive exposure to the tips of the teeth. Of course such players have more than likely forgotten that they, too, probably once , long ago, had a hurt lip.
Add to that the fact that some people have much sharper teeth, irregular teeth, chipped teeth, etc.
UNTIL a player develops lip and skin tissue that is able to cope with the onslaught of a little support from the lower teeth, the lip will feel as if it under attack, and may need protection.
How horrible would a beginner sound with NO support form the lower teeth!
So take it easy on players who are still in the process of modifying their lip tissue to cope with clarinet playing, considering and their own particular configuration of teeth.
As the original post requested, avoid the lecturing!
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Author: frank
Date: 2006-05-09 18:08
In my earlier days, I suffered from the biting syndrome. I used to put paper on my teeth. I also played with a very slack ebouchure that lacked correctness in how firm my musculature should have been. I never said"all" players who use a teeth aide play sharp, thin, etc, , just MOST that I've come across. I actually once sanded my bottom teeth with 600 grade paper, as they were very sharp. Am I crazy? Yes!  It worked well. I find these days that if anything hurts, it is my teeth when playing for long periods (2 hour + concert). The main thing in keeping a proper tone and pitch is in the strength and consistency of embouchure. I recommend reading Larry Guy's book on embouchure. It's a great book with practical excercises and by far, the best I have seen on the topic of embouchure. Try his excercises and wait a month. Maybe you won't need paper on your teeth after that. Try it and get back to the thread.
In no way, shape or form have I, or will I say that the lower teeth aren't important in the formation of a proper embouchure. The bottom lip should rest on the bottom teeth, not be ground into them like a cheese grater
Gordon, I have yet to kiss another clarinet or sax player and find they had a calloused mouth.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2006-05-09 18:35
One only needs some experience of kissing a variety of people, to know that the firmness of lip tissue varies enormously.
<gets ready for field test>
If it improves my playing, no venture is too arduous... ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-15 05:29
Sorry I'm so late in getting back to this topic........Another solution to the problem, particularly if the trouble is that you haven't had a lot of sustained practice lately, is to every few minutes slightly shift the part of your lip that is over the teeth. Just moving between three separate positions that are about a millimeter apart won't drastically affect your embouchure but will keep the same part of your lip from bearing the brunt of the force. This approach has worked for me.
-Randy
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