 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-09 14:17
Well that's it! I give up. No more. I refuse to even stay in the same classroom with that man!!! He was out for 6 weeks for surgery. He came back yesterday. I asked him if he cared if all of us but 6 were leaving, and he said he didn't care. Then I jut asked if he cared at all and he said "No, end of conversation, good bye" I am so frustrated. I knew I was going to drop band 'cause I can use that credit to LEARN something. And I just can't go on. I don't even want to do marching band he can take it and *stops* Well....do y'all approve...I mean, I'm still going to do what I'm going to do but I desperately need some support...I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place. It is SO frustrating to be in a good band program and then go into a non-existent band program!!! I just can't take this anymore!!!!
Wiser Frustrated Freshman,
Nicole Y.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John
Date: 2000-05-09 14:29
Just for five minutes try walking in his shoes. Six weeks out for surgery is a long time so it must have been pretty serious. How would you feel just coming back after that and have someone tell you "everyone is quitting and we hate you"? What else do you know about the person and what he has gone through? Quit if you must, but do it with care in your heart.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-09 14:36
Nicole,
<br>You were rude. You gave this person no chance to talk to you. You're in the wrong here. If you can't stand this person, then you're the one who has to leave - I don't think you're going to get the band director to quit.
<br>
<br>What would you do if you got into an orchestra and hated the conductor? Believe me, it happens all the time. In most cases, if the conductor is popular with the public and is bringing in the money - tough. You either play or find a new job. I've had to bite my tongue many a time with supervisors who were, well, incompetent is the best way to describe them. There was something else that the job offered that made me stay - if there wasn't something else, I would've quit.
<br>
<br>Maybe more brutal than you expected, but that's the way it is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-09 15:03
John and Mark posted their messages while I was trying to send mine, so mine bounced. I'm glad it did, because I really flamed you. John and Mark made the point more politely.
I will only add that I spent several weeks in the hospital in early 1998, and can tell you that it's no party, and that going back to the real world afterwards, trying to pick up your life where it left off, is no party, either. For your teacher to be out of work for six weeks, something was seriously wrong. He probably still doesn't feel well. People almost always have to go back to work before they're ready. Chances are he felt bad for some time before he left work to have the surgery, too. Whatever was wrong may have affected his job performance.
He has a lot on his mind now, besides just surviving the experience: Will he be able to keep his job and support himself? Sometimes employers look for excuses to get rid of people with health problems -- which can make it harder to find a new job, too. Is he physically able to handle a full day of work? Only one way to find out.
But what do you do to him ON HIS FIRST FREAKING DAY BACK, of all times? You get in his face and make it even rougher on him! Try to think a little bit less about *you* and *your needs*. Grow up. If you can't do that, then for heaven's sake, do the man a favor and go ahead and quit, the way you keep threatening to do when you don't get your own way.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Donn
Date: 2000-05-09 15:52
Nicole: Please give this man another shot at it. He probably needs understanding now, of all times, after what he's been through.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: steve
Date: 2000-05-09 17:18
I can understand Nicole's frustration, but unfortunately, the real world doesn't work the way Nicole wants it to. I'm a bit envious that Nicole doesn't know this yet...:)
Nicole, if I could count the numbers of conductors, contractors, leaders, teachers, bosses, etc that I hated, I'd need several pairs of hands. Later in life, I found out two things. The reasons I hated them had more to do about me, and little to do about them. The reason they behaved in the way they did was completely unknown to me, even if I thought I understood. I realized that my job was to forget all that, and be the best clarinetist/guitarist/chemist in the world while I was on the clock, and then go home to the people that I loved.
More importantly, for all the pain-in-the-neck teachers I had, I had more than my share of true master teachers. These people made what I am today. Some of them have passed away. I still miss them all.
I think most of us have teachers like that. Let's think of them
s.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Drew
Date: 2000-05-09 17:25
Nicole,
I don't often dispense advise, but here it is:
Don't give up!!! Go back to your band director, apologize, and ask to come back. If you give up you will loose out on an experience (playing in a band) that you can never duplicate. Why would you be willing to give that up?
This is one of those painful little lessons of life. 10 years from now you will either regret giving up or have fond memories of having perservered though some tough times.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-09 21:58
Nicole,
BEsides being sick he is prabable really druged up. maybe in pain. What was he like before he was sick. I mean way before, like the beginig of the year. I have a lit/lang teacher that I cants stand but I am as polite to her as i can be because I relize she is HUMAN also. Dont quit. Even if its the most terible band program in the world its still a braek from the stress of being a student. Just sit back, play your horn and have fun. Look for the GOOD in people. The teacher I dont like replaced the best teacher in the world. The best teacher died. Give him a seccond chanse. Get out of his face. My mothers a teacher. The stress from your employer is umbelieveable. The last thing a sick man needs is to be badgared by a student. He may not be up to par but he shore prabable spends alot of time preparing for you guys.
Give him a break!!!!!!!!!
GRaham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Amber
Date: 2000-05-09 22:17
Why would you ask him that? It was his first day back and chances are, the band was in a wreck, seeing as there are few music subs. So there are 6 weeks of pratice time down the drain. And since most of the band seems to be leaving, why would you ask him that? he has enough stress.
I am sorry. I don't mean to scold. The others have done that already. But I can't understand talking to a teacher like that. My mother would slap me in the face if I ever did anything like that.
I know what it is like to have horrible teachers. And I am sorry that your music experience isn't as good as it could be. It doesn't matter how big the program is. And the teacher , though a big part of it, is just a part of how YOU decide to make your experience.
My Jr. High was like that. Almost half the band quit because of the teacher. I stuck it out and did my best to get along with her. I managed to have a really good time, learn alot of stuff and get a head of those who quit.
They missed out on a lot and you can be too. And thid teacher is just for a few years. I promise a good one will come along. Mine did! And he is the best thing that ever happened to me! So chin up and don't get so emotional...save that for your music! :o)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: TwrlGrl
Date: 2000-05-09 22:39
I think if you really love playing your clarinet, you would stick with the band program for the experience you'll get, even if it is bad.
Last year, we had some directors that the whole band did not like. Some people quit. Some people stayed and played on. That even happened when we had a good director that most people in the band liked. I like the directors we have this year, but some people don't.
I love playing and even if the worst director came, I would still play, just because I love it and I want the experience of playing in a band.
For what you said to him, that was cold. I don't think anybody in our band would go right up to the director and say that. Maybe that's what y'all do in high school, but in middle school that does not happen. I pity y'all's band director. And he just came back from surgery! Gee whiz! You should know band directors have lives outside the band hall. They're people, too.
Well, that's all I have to say about that matter.
TwrlGrl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Meredith H
Date: 2000-05-09 23:41
I also lost an excellent musical director for a poor one mid way through high school. The standard of the music we played dropped and it just wasn't as fun any more. However, nearly everyone in the band stayed and played the best they could.
Remember it will be you losing out as well as your musical director if you quit. I don't know why you would want to play an instrument like the clarinet and not be involved with a band. Honking by yourself at home just doesn't give the same degree of satisfaction, the clarinet is a friendly instrument not a loner (my opinion). Being a good soloist and being a good ensemble player are two completely different skills. I think one is about ego and the other is about fellowship (no offense intended).
However, you may as well quit your school band unless you develop a new attitude. You may be the best clarinet player in the school but your band will be better off without you with you if you keep undermining the authority of your musical director.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-05-10 00:19
I can tell you that your band director probably didn't feel really well that day. It's not his fault he had to go into surgery (well, it could have been, but I'm positive he didn't plan it that way). I'm sure he's giving it his all (even though you may not think so), and coming back from surgery to a comment like that probably didn't make him feel any better. You may not like him, but he's still a human.
It's times like this when I can only shake my head, people complain about how nobody cares about how they feel, and they do something like this. Next time, instead of "I hate you and everyone is quitting," Try, "I hope you're feeling better." It might not solve your problems with the man, but I guarentee he will really pay attention to what you say versus biting his head off.
I hope I haven't made anyone too mad at me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-10 00:37
There's this story from my old high school. Mrs. Hatcher was a teacher that students hated like crazy. All through the year they criticized her teaching. Then, for some reason she never came back. The rumor, and true, was that she had breast cancer. She was in the hospital and died in the hospital. After this happened, kids said she wasn't that bad, and the teacher who preceded her was terrible! They would have rather had Mrs. Hatcher.
The moral: Think about your teacher's before you go saying you hate them. They could be the best teacher you ever had. Is your band director that bad that you'd like to see him gone for good? What would happen if you got somebody worse who really mistreated you?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-05-10 02:30
I didn't read the entire post, but I will give you a response from someone who was on the "other side of the fence" at one point in time.
I took a job band directing at a school that since it's formation in the 1940's that had only two band directors in it's history and this was in 1991! The previous band director had been there for 28 years. He was very successful in his program. I also came from developing a very successful band program, but I can tell you from day one I thought I was in hell. Everytime I tried to do something innovative or a little differently from what was "done in the past" all I heard from the students, "That's not how Mr. C did it!" Well, I wasn't Mr. C and not about to become Mr. C. I had my own individuality and my own style. I left after two years and became a director at a school that accepted me for the way I was....and I am still very successful in what I do. I feel cheated from those two years because they were destructive to the program. I could go on, but you don't need a dissertation.
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Willie
Date: 2000-05-10 06:03
Good advice above! The mental and physical stress of an operation, then the recovery process is hard. Add to this the fact that he's up to his armpits with bills. I just went throuh this myself with an emergency 4 way bypass and almost didn't make it. My neighbor had the same and he did't. If anything, give the man a welcome back hug and ask him if you can help him. I got help from people I hardly knew during my return home and at work. It gives you a feeling inside that I cannot describe in words.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel Vahala
Date: 2000-05-10 10:01
What an impressive collection of sensible advice all round. If I remember correctly, Nicole, a few months back you had a problem with 1st and 2nd chair selection, and felt like quitting because you thought you were not properly appreciated. People who keep threatening to pick up their ball and go home are a pain to all around them. Either stop behaving that way, or for the sake of the rest quit now.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-10 13:20
No this has been going on for a long time. When we sit in the class and don't play for weeks on end...The last time I played before his surgery in his class was 2 months ago. Everyone is fed up. We've tried talking but he says "I don't care." We had no idea that it was going to be like this. But I just...I can't do this anymore. It kills me to know that Band class is just like a study hall. We have no enthusiasm. Our morale is gone. To put it bluntly, we suck now. We suck because we let him get to us. Because he didn't care we felt we didn't need to. So Shontae and I got into Youth Orchestra and we love playing but we cannot stand the contrast. We don't ask much, just someone to direct us who cares about the music.
Nicole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-10 13:29
P.s. Yes I was that person Karel. But I think I should have added the situation in my first tirade. If all but 6 are quitting, it's obvious that there is a problem. And newayz, he said all this before his surgery and I just want to LEARN. I want to PLAY. I want to FEEL the music again. I want to enjoy band. This has gone on *the "I don't care attitude"* for a year. We never play. I have gotten 1 piece of music during the last 6 months. We never play. I want to play. I will quit because I have quit, but I would never have taken that step if he had cared about the music, if he had cared about us. Because he says that he doesn't. And he acts like he doesn't. And actions speak louder than words.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Gardner
Date: 2000-05-10 13:43
Nicole:
If I were you what I would do is get a group of friends and start your own group. Pick the type of music you like and play. You really don't need a school teacher to enjoy music. Find a like group and play a home or where ever.
When this teacher leaves, and he will, then you can rejoin the school band.
Nobody is stopping you from playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-10 14:04
Thanx for not blowing up at me or lecturing me about how childish I am. I plan to grow until 20 and stay 20. *ha ha ha* I got into Youth Orchestra and they have provided me with a scholarship for private lessons with the first chair from the Savannah Symphony so I'm fine. I decided to do those things because I didn't like the way I was playing and I needed music to be fun again! And it is...like it should always be.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RON D
Date: 2000-05-10 15:46
WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: connie
Date: 2000-05-10 17:45
Nicole Y. wrote:
-------------------------------
No this has been going on for a long time. When we sit in the class and don't play for weeks on end...The last time I played before his surgery in his class was 2 months ago. Everyone is fed up. We've tried talking but he says "I don't care." ... We don't ask much, just someone to direct us who cares about the music.
Nicole,
I'm assuming you're in high school...Where is your principal in all of this? When my daughter's school got a new band director that "nobody" liked (actually, one parent), there was so much pressure on the principal that this director got "observed" 22 times during the year (normal 2 or 3). Even though most of the students and parents were okay with him, he resigned because he felt he was being forced out. If your director really "doesn't care" and you haven't played in band class for weeks on end, you have a valid complaint to take to the principal, who should be able to do something. Like maybe get someone who cares about the music.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-10 19:14
In a local high school, the school band program was fabulous! However, there were complaints such as him bringing students to tears because they didn't know the band music and band practice. One comment was, "It's October and you still don't have your music memorized?" That director retired last year.
Now this band lost maybe 20 students because of the new director. There were maybe 80 in the band. The band was damn good too! In the Intro to Music Ed class I had to take, students said that the teacher is letting the kids in band sit and do nothing. He is rewarding them after a trip to Florida by having them not have band. When they do rehearse, the students have no respect for the band director. They throw paper all over the place, etc.
I am glad that I went through three directors instead of something like that. Maybe, if I were in the above situation I would quit too.
Nicole, I think you should go with your gut instinct. You wouldn't want to do something you would regret, would you?
Best of luck.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Royce
Date: 2000-05-10 22:40
I wish we could hear the point of view of Nicole's band director. Is he really just a lazy, unmotivated teacher who doesn't care about his students, or is there more to this story?
R
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-10 22:54
Nicole,
I take back some of what I waid before. Ask your orchestra director if being in band matters. In Albuquerque, Were I live if your not in band you cant be in orchestra, symphoney or what ever. I think you should do what you want. Starting your own group is a great Idea. Some one said earlier that soloing is for the ego (something like that). Thats not true. Just because YOu enjoy soloing doesnt mean that you have a overly large ego. I like soloing. I also like playing in band and youth syphoney. I like playing solos because IT gives me a chance to play the kind of music I really want to play. YOu could also get some of thoe play along tapes. I thought they were only fro beginers but I found one for an advanced student with concert pieces on it. Still you were hard on the man. That is not what he needed the day back no matter how evil he may be.
Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-11 13:25
Hey Ron,
The real world is what you make it. And I choose to move on...to be better. Highly idealistic, I know, but what would we be without our ideals, our morals, religion, thoughts. Society can't be changed if you say, oh welcome to the real world, it's never going to change, so why should I try. Sometimes it's not the result, it's the journey. I think this'll make me stronger. I am actually happy now, I made my own decision and found a way around this class. Falling so far behind in skill and in morale has made me see that only I can help myself when no one is there for me. Just lucky for me that I found the Youth Orchestra and they found my private teacher and that I am slowly gaining back morale and fast approaching my former skill level as I practice day to day. So please refrain from disillusioning me. I am happy with my ideals. Without them I would be dead. Because I have heard it before. Because I never had that happy life. I have gone through much pain and my family life has never been good. Perhaps I should say "Welcome to MY world" where people get hurt and justice doesn't occur and mostly good guys finish last. See? I can be cynical too. But perhaps, being idealistic has kept me alive and I will stand by them, no matter what. Because I matter to myself and I can do something about my world however small.
Nicole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-05-11 14:40
Nicole Y. wrote:
-------------------------------
Hey Ron,
The real world is what you make it. And I choose to move on...to be better. Highly idealistic, I know, but what would we be without our ideals, our morals, religion, thoughts.
------------------
Which morality or religion is it, exactly, that tells you it's okay to verbally attack a teacher on his first day back from surgery and a long period out sick?
--------------------
Nicole Y. wrote,
So please refrain from disillusioning me. I am happy with my ideals. Without them I would be dead. Because I have heard it before. Because I never had that happy life. I have gone through much pain and my family life has never been good. Perhaps I should say "Welcome to MY world" where people get hurt and justice doesn't occur and mostly good guys finish last. See? I can be cynical too. But perhaps, being idealistic has kept me alive and I will stand by them, no matter what. Because I matter to myself and I can do something about my world however small.
------------------
This saddens me so much. You're just not getting it! You matter to yourself, but does anyone else matter to you? You're not really asking for advice on this thread. You're not absorbing what people have said here. You're asking for validation. You want people to agree with what you did, and when they overwhelmingly don't agree, you're defensive. The blast shield is up and you're not going to let anything really communicate with you through it. I suspect that you really have a lot more doubts about yourself than your bravado here (and in many previous threads) indicates, or else you wouldn't need such extreme defensiveness.
It's all about *you* and what *you* want. So far you haven't expressed any empathy for this teacher. While you're at it, why don't you try making the world better for *other people*? It isn't just *your* world. I'm a believer in the old idea that what goes around, comes around -- Do unto others, etc.. "That which you send out will come back to you threefold."
If you really have to think of this situation so selfishly, think of it this way: Maybe if you went out of your way to make life easier for this teacher, then the teacher would see a reason to make your life better. Right now, you're giving him every motivation to do the opposite. You're not going to get what you want out of life this way. Do you want the cruel treatment you just handed out to this teacher to come back to you threefold?
Do you understand that what you did was cruel? Have you apologized to the teacher yet? Do you understand that you *need to*? If you can't talk this situation over with a parent, please go to your school counsellor or your clergy, and discuss everything you've said here and in your previous threads. It sounds to me as though you want to vent a lot of family and personal stuff besides just the band situation. With a professional counsellor, you can do this in a private, safe situation where you can talk freely about everything, back and forth conversation, without hurting other people. Those of us who have criticized you here are not trying to hurt you. I feel sad for you and I'm worried about your future.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-05-11 15:21
Right on Lelia, and to Nicole, if this is the worst thing that happens to you in your very young life you are very lucky. If your attitude continues you are going to be a very unhappy adult. My suggestion to you is to learn from this experience and move on, and PLEASE look to your own inner reserves to solve your proplems and stop blameing others for your sucess or failure in life. Make it your business to plan for your own future and stop expecting others to pave the way for you. If you are offered help accept it with gratitude and if not do the best you can. In the words of Ann Landers " wake up and smell the coffee"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-11 17:24
Maybe this will help. I was first chair second in my college symphonic band. For whatever reason, my band director switched me to second chair a week before the concert. I was a little upset, but nowhere near as upset as when I was a high school senior and second chair to a a freshman.
Being a little more experienced and mature, I figured that he probably switched us because of my rhythm problem. I also hadn't really taken the time to practice. I ordered a new mp and barrel, and I performed in one of the weekly recitals. I didn't really take the time out to practice a difficult Grade 6 piece of music: La Fiesta Mexicana.
After he did this, although upset, I could never hate this professor. In my opinion, he is fabulous! I also couldn't hate the person who is ahead of me. We agree that the college's clarinet teacher's methods stink and we are friends.
If you hate a band director that much then maybe you should take a few steps back and see if other people feel the same way. If they bitterly hate this man's methods then you should all go to the principal and see if something can be done. But, maybe there was poor teaching going on because of his medical problem.
Remember you are there to make music, but if you want to go ahead and hate people, then maybe YOU shouldn't be there.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-11 21:02
I am the way I am because of the circumstances that shaped me. I cannot change the way I am. I just wished to see if someone would support me. And they have. Please stop telling me to wake up and to basically seek help or change. Lelia, I heard you. Why do you think that I have asked that I have tried to make reason with my band director? It kills me to see how far we have fallen. And Ron, it was because we let him get to us because we decided that if he didn't care if we practiced then we didn't care. And I think I've shown that I've made my own way...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Anon
Date: 2000-05-11 21:10
Nikki
If you don't think staying in the class is productive then quit, before you do think about this... If you were learning before your teacher left for surgery tehn it went downhill after maybe you could consider that he may just not have recovered yet and doesn't feel good. Maybe if you stay in things will go back to how they were in good time. School is almost out. Isn't it? Maybe after a good long break your teach will be to his old self. If you do quit don't blame him, he is in a tough position... he need recovery time.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-05-11 21:45
Nicole you still dont get it. It seems that all you want to do is prove to everyone that you are right and they are wrong. I predict that unless you change your ways you are going to have a very hard life. At your age most people will try to help you but, as you will soon find out when you get older, you will be all alone with your preceved grudges and dislikes. Adults will write you off with not even a second thought. I strongly urge that you read all the posts on this subject and make a sincere effort to learn from the comments of your older peers and make a real effort to implement some of the suggestions that have been offered. I would start with an apology to your ex teacher. Good luck, it appears that you will need it.
This will be my last word on this subject
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RJ
Date: 2000-05-11 22:07
Nicole Y. wrote:
-------------------------------
I am the way I am because of the circumstances that shaped me. I cannot change the way I am. I just wished to see if someone would support me. And they have. Please stop telling me to wake up and to basically seek help or change. Lelia, I heard you. Why do you think that I have asked that I have tried to make reason with my band director? It kills me to see how far we have fallen. And Ron, it was because we let him get to us because we decided that if he didn't care if we practiced then we didn't care. And I think I've shown that I've made my own way...
Nicole,
"I cannot change the way I am" is a poor *excuse*. You most certainly can change the way you act, it's called "maturity".
I haven't seen any "support" in *this* forum for attacking a teacher on his first day back from surgery. It wouldn't have taken one iota more effort to simply say, "Mr. So-and-so, I don't feel I'm getting anything out of this class anymore, so I'm leaving. Goodbye." Instead you chose to be mean about it.
I feel sorry for you, but I feel especially sorry for those poor unfortunates who have to live and go to school with you.
You'll be an adult soon, perhaps you might try acting like one.
RJ
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Laur
Date: 2000-05-11 22:25
Hey All
Kim : << One comment was, "It's October and you still don't have your music memorized?" That director retired last year. >>
You got till October to memorize music ?! Wow. We normally have till the first lesson of the year, which is the first week of September. I just got a new piece today which i'm having a memorization audition on tuesday. October is nice !
Nicole -
Hey. How was band today ? I know how it feels to have a director absent when you need them. It's soo incredibly frustrating. And to have him absent for a lengthy period time is worse, yet.. I don't think he really planned it as that. Is your director under a lot of stress etc, depression now ? I know how it is to hate someone, and have to deal with that person, but still be kind, and still just treat him as if u were absent for 3 months - I know it's not what you want to hear, yet i have learned first hand - Treat your director how you want to be treated, usually, he will treat you the same. If you love music as much as you say you do .. Do whatever you have to; to play. Go to the local music store, find the hardest, most funnest piece u can find - then work on it till it's prefected. There is always another option, another door open. If you feel soo strongly about your director etc, talk to someone, .. go to guidance, or the principal and maturly, and respectfully show your concern. Make sure that you really 110% what you are going to do is correct. Don't do it on the spur of the moment. One person can make a difference. Just be sure..
Laurie - If you need to talk e-mail me : Bsbball02@cs.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-12 00:08
Two years ago, I was a senior in high school. In March I did my rounds of auditioning to get into music programs. I was accepted into a three schools, but rejected by all three music programs! Sure I was bummed, but I chose the school that was closest to my house, and studied sightsinging and eartraining under him so I would be sure to be accepted.
I worked really hard last year(my college freshman year) and wound making it into the program. I went through hell last year! I loved music more than anything and to not be in the program was torture. I could have just as easily decided to change my major, but I didn't. I am now a happy music ed major.
Nicole, no matter who you are, you MUST accept things for what they are. You will get yourself in trouble if you don't. Make friends, not enemies. Suppose you want to be a band director in the future? Will you turn to your high school band director? I would. I wouldn't if he was my enemy. Think before you speak. Also, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Sometimes its just better to keep your mouth shut. Stay in the dark instead of the light. If you want attention, talk to your friends, but don't make enemies with your band director.
Band is SUPPOSED to be FUN in my book. If you don't make it that way, something's wrong. Have you ever thought that kids want to quit because of YOU and not the director?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Amber
Date: 2000-05-12 02:42
Nicole Y. wrote:
-------------------------------
It kills me to see how far we have fallen. And Ron, it was because we let him get to us because we decided that if he didn't care if we practiced then we didn't care
No wonder your band program has gotten so bad. One person can't make the whole music program go down. It is not HIS music program it is EVERYONES. It might be partly his fault, but he can't force you guys to practice! You all share a fault in this and until you take responsibility, and start saying OUR music program, it will not get better. Be responsible for your own attitude, because you will be quitting a lot of bands in the future if you keep this up:o(
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-12 17:14
Nicole Y. wrote:
-------------------------------
I want to enjoy band. This has gone on *the "I don't care attitude"* for a year. We never play. I have gotten 1 piece of music during the last 6 months. We never play. I want to play. I will quit because I have quit, but I would never have taken that step if he had cared about the music, if he had cared about us. Because he says that he doesn't. And he acts like he doesn't. And actions speak louder than words.
OK,
So shes no perfect. Wno is. THe band director obviously needs to get his act together. all you guys (me included) stop picking on every thing nicole says. IF she doesnt like band than she shouldnt have to be in band. If she has a personality clash witht the BD than she should change classes. SHes obviously has her music act together. I have always none musicicans to be warm. Now it wasnt nice to be rude to the guy on his first day back but its also strange for a whole class to not play and to not be motivated. If every one than six people quit then may be he does have some faults. I found nicole just telling her story and every one decended on her like a hawk.
Calm down people. MAybe she will never get what your trying to say but I think she does. Instead of supportiong a fellow musician that you guys no pretty well your are suportiong a guy who you have never met. Grantid we are getting only half the story but maybe if the guy is that sick he needs to go on long time sick leave.
I know you all hate me now but I just had to say this. Ron amd Lilia, I know you will never ever in the slightest way ever get this. ITs seems that your school years are far away. Well Im a student. I have bad tachers. There are some teachers that just make you feel horible in side. If they dont care than why bother. Its just that in this situation it happens to be a band director. The sacred person. to all you egotistical musicians you cant touch a bad director witha ten fot pole. Ron as soon as nicole tried to shine some light don her problem you cut her down. SO did you lilia. you should be ashamed.
GRaham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-12 17:26
Hello,
Wake up. You all seem to think nicole was asking a question. Well sje wasnt. I know what its like to have areally bad day and have to tell someone about it. I know what its like to want some one to say its gona be ok or you did the right thing. Its hard. (nicloe correct me if im wrong) shes prabable just looking for some one to say its good. its gona work out. Its hard to be a student. Tis hard to be a student with bad teachers.
you know when you have a really bad day and you just have to tell some one to get it off your back. think about it. Think of when you were a srtudent. You guys think your the omnipotent race. the adults. WEll you were a student to and made some mistakes. you did some dumb things in your life. You were in bad situations. Just cool it. This is not the crap some one needs. The band director did not need it eather but allot changes in words. How do we know that nicoe was as rude as she sounds?
Take a step back and look at the big picture. put your self in her shoes instead of trying to put her in yours.
GRaham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron D.
Date: 2000-05-12 18:23
Good advice is good advice no mater if the advisor is eight or eighty, you may or may not have the ability to understand it . gRAHAM I suggest you make a real effort in your english classes it could do a world of good.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-12 18:49
In response to Graham's reply, after sitting second chair to a freshman to a whole year, and hating my director for it, it was okay. I stayed with the program, and am glad I did! I didn't get as much out of that year as I'd hoped, but the marching band had a great year, and the concert band played fabulous music.
Nicole, maybe since your band director had surgery, he is in a "rebuilding" stage. Have the upperclassmen told you that he was this bad before he went to have the surgery? I think you give him a chance and keep your cool instead of: Ready, Aim, Fire! Relax. Bad things can always turn into good. You never know, next year can be really fabulous. Those who persevere get the most out of things. I know that from experience. I wouldn't be half of what I am now if I hadn't stuck with it. If you love music, then you will stick with the band director and band because of it. Don't quit because you got a bad taste in your mouth.
Remember: The grass is always greener on the other side.
Good luck in the future.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-12 19:43
I do make a real effort in my english class. ITs just hard when the teacher dies in the middle if the year!!!!!!!!!
Im sorry I have bad writing skills. I am an inteligant person and no matter how bad my writen english is ym spoken english is out standing. I recomend you give adxice about english to a person who can try harder. Its hard with out a teacher you know.
GRaham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-12 19:55
Ron D. wrote:
-------------------------------
Good advice is good advice no mater if the advisor is eight or eighty
I do think your advice was very good. Just presented in a crude maner. I think giving advice is great. Forcing advice is a crime. When some one isnt ready to change thier ideals then they wont. Trying to continually force something on someone is a wast of energy. some one who forces advise is no longer an advisor but a dictator. Can you give advice when your 90 or does it stop at 80?
GRaham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-12 20:49
gRAHAM wrote:
-------------------------------
I do make a real effort in my english class. ITs just hard when the teacher dies in the middle if the year!!!!!!!!!
-------
What? They haven't replaced your teacher yet? I can't believe it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-12 20:52
Graham,
You might want to search the BBoard and see how supportive everyone has been with Nichole in past times. This time she was way out of line - and bands have enough trouble without petty little fights going on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-05-12 20:55
WAIT A SECOND! We are all getting so defensive that we are cutting people down on things that have nothing to do with the topic! What does bad spelling have to do with dropping out of band because you don't like the director?
Everybody has had some really valid points, that the situation was handled wrong, but most of use are sticking up for a guy we don't even know. I don't know anymore...I think this is the last I have to say on this topic.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron D.
Date: 2000-05-12 20:55
Sorry to hear that your english teacher died. Did your previous english teacher die also? The great thing about America and the internet is that you dont have to follow advice given by strangers if you dont like or agree with others comments, just "ignore" them, you do have that right, I "suggest"that you do just that.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-12 21:05
My english teacher did die. She was prabably the best teacher I ever had. They did replace her. But with a perinoid evil person. She never lets us do anything. Its a gifted class for crist sakes. Its terrible. She has no sence of humor and is over pretective of the world. She thinks every one is out to get her.
every 8 people transfered out of my class. Now its just me stephanie warren comilo and marisa. ITs a living hell. THats why I got so up set about the way every one ( me Included) was treating nicole.
I have not been on the BBoard very long so I did not know nicoles past problems. I just know what its like to have a teacher who dosnt care.
sorry for boring every one.
I am off task here.
GRaham
PS.
Thanks every one who helped me with my clarinet of the future report. I got a d on it though. I thought I did a really good job. and no it wasnt because of my english. Its because the taussig tried to refrence my sources. She couldnt find the BBoard. She couldt find my past post. SHe couldnt find any of the books I used and she couldnt find any of the companies I interviewed. I gave her everything. SHe was afraid I plagerized.
but I really didnt.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: To gGRAHM
Date: 2000-05-12 21:32
Is english your second language? If so I apologize for my previous comments. I personally know how hard it is to speak in a language other than your primary one. I did not have the chance to speak english until I was sent to the Chicago public schools (inner city school no less),however I soon found out that my primary language was only usefull for communicating with my relatives and ordering food from ethnic restaurants.
I believe you said you were in a class for gifted students, was I mistaken?
At any rate I appologize for offending you and I sincerly hope that you find greater happiness in the future.
Haveing said that I believe that the student that started all this by the insenstive remarks that were made to her teacher never has anyone treat her in the same disrespectfull manner.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-05-12 21:44
Sorry the post written from "To gRAHAM was written by me Ron D.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 2000-05-12 22:18
Okay everyone, calm down! Ron and gRAHM, please refrain from attacking each other. I have made my decision, and yes, gRAHM I was only seeing if people could understand me and would think that I did the right thing. While some people have cut me to the quick, others have emailed me off line and told me that they wish me luck and they believe that I have done the right thing. I know some people think that I was in the wrong, but I don't think I was. And that is because HE needs to know. Because no one else is saying anything, just dropping. And I had that on my chest so long that I just had to. No, I'm not perfect, yes I've got some issues to resolve, but I believe we all do. RON D and LELIA YES I am ignoring your advice, because you don't know me all that well. Only what you've read. I turned to my support group (aka my friends-who tell me when I'm in the wrong and don't care if I get mad plus they know me better than I know myself) and they told me that although I could have been nicer, they understand me. And they mean more to me than anything else. I've been on a really bad verge to a breakdown and this wasn't helping because I have been running in circles with school and final exams and private lessons and my dad leaving for a year and everyone else besides my friends wanting something from me. I gave and gave until I had nothing left for myself. However, with their help I'm fine now. This bboard and Lelia and Ron D's comments just were catalysts. So I'm sorry for being defensive, it just seemed like the skies were falling for a while. So everyone, case is closed. And I've finally returned to normal. I've decided to do marching band, 'cause he's pretty good with that but everything else, no. gRAHM thanx for all your comments, I'll remember to email you off line when I ever need someone who's been in similar circumstances.
Nicole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-05-12 22:42
Well, Nicole, from your final response I see you haven't learned anything yet. Maybe next year ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-12 22:54
Three cheers to American society and what's its doing to us. The Republicans and Democrats tear each other apart when its time to vote on the new laws and the budget. What right does it give us to tear each other apart in a situation like this? I hand it to us because we are careless Americans! We all owe Nicole a huge apology. All Americans can be cruel at some point or another. Look at what Clinton did. Were Americans cruel to him? I think so! But, did we keep at him and make him feel so bad to go crying out of office? NO!!!!!!!!
I am sorry for some of the things I said to Nicole, and I think the rest of you should be too!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Royce
Date: 2000-05-12 23:49
Kim:
I agree there's too much cruelty. I thought the whole point of this exercise was to try to get Nicole to see that attacking her band director on his first day back from surgery was needlessly cruel.
It would be nice if we could realize that it is possible to treat others with dignity and compassion -- even if we disagree with them, don't like them, have no respect for them, or can't stand to be in the same room with them. Or even if we believe they have wronged us somehow. Of course it's not easy, but it is *possible*.
Sadly, Nicole has made it clear that she still feels her behavior was perfectly OK. But if people are cruel and unkind to *her*, well, that's just awful. What goes around comes around...
To Nicole:
Personally, I try to make as few enemies as I can. What if you go to college and become a music teacher? And when you report to your first teaching job at high school you discover the principal is -- your freshman band director! Could happen...
Royce
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Frank
Date: 2000-05-13 00:02
This is the most interesting sociological display since the L.A. riots!
Yes, I think Nicole was out of line with confronting her director that way, but I'm not going to "flame" her over it or tell her that she's learned nothing from the experience. One can't help but learn from EACH experience whether we think so or not.
It seems that the most basic lesson to be learned here is that if you're going to "chew someone a new one," don't go looking for support! That applies to Nicole and those of you who responded. If you read the posts carefully, you'll see that even the people who disagree with Nicole don't agree with eachother! Moreover, a given poster can't even agree within him or herself. I mean, a poster will condemn Nicole, then a few posts later that same person apologizes for his or her behavior. If that can happen here, then doesn't it stand to reason that Nicole may feel some remorse about her behavior, whether or not she shares it with us?
I shall stop now before I fall into the category that I've just described.
Frank
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ron D
Date: 2000-05-13 00:30
Nothing boring about this bulletin board., and yes its a good lesson on ethics and morality. I think everyone that participated learned something. Now if only this activity would allow me to perfect my humble playing skills I would be jubilent.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gRAHAM
Date: 2000-05-13 03:51
OK,
I do speak english, it is my first language. I am sorry I just dont have good spelling and puctuation. I am in a gifted class. I am from Albuquerque NM USA. Just alittle flustered being surrounded by radioactive fires!!!!!!
Sorry to Nicole for snapping at you in my first post. Sorry to every one especialy Ron and lilia for being rude to you. Sorry to every one else for snapping about you and getting of track. sorry to frank for changing my sides.
Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-13 04:09
In high school, I am very thankful that I took band. It taught me some very important life skills: cooperation, team work, etc. But most importantly, being in band taught me how to work with people and deal with their problems. Some kids in band and be damn weird and yes, there are some pretty bad band directors out there. It's a shame that some directors are out there for the money and vacations and not to teach. Suppose Nicole's is one of those few director's that decided to lean back on teaching, but was a professional musician in the past. The director may not even like to teach high school band. Hey, you never know. Nicole could be in a situation where she is more right than wrong. If she's right, I congratulate her for sticking up to an authority figure. And is she's wrong, well, we all make mistakes at some time or another.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Frank
Date: 2000-05-13 07:15
I think we all need a group hug!
F
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel Vahala
Date: 2000-05-13 11:27
Nicole, it is sad to see that you can't see how selfish and selfcentered your bahaviour is. "Givers" who keep giving are rarely aware of their lack of selfishness. Your attempts to find warmth in the few messages that agree with you are a confirmation of your lack of maturity. I hope you are wrong when you say that"that's the way you are and you can't change". I would pity both you and your surroundings.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John
Date: 2000-05-13 14:37
Hey Mark, could this be the longest thread ever??
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken
Date: 2000-05-14 00:54
"Why is it that youth is wasted on the youth?"
--Carl Sandberg
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry
Date: 2000-05-14 02:20
OK - I'll jump in. Yes, I think we all agree that Nicole could have been more tactful under the situation. Of course, the director could be a true ham, one of those types that just destroys everything. Perhaps he is the best of people, but now has become the opposite due to health reasons. Whatever the situation, Nicole could have bowed out gracefully - but such is youth.
On the positive side, Nicole found herself in a bad situation, and turned it into a good and positive one. That in and of itself speaks wonders for someone of her age - well done in that Nicole - carry on and you will go far. Learn the advice given to you by the folks who responded, and you will go farther with more people supporting you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim
Date: 2000-05-14 06:23
Nicole,
A few thoughts...
If your band director is not performing his duties, then by all means have your parent/guardian explore all remedies available with the school administration or board of ed. We often don't look at it this way, but students are consumers of a service, and the taxpayers are entitled to get their money's worth.
Some teachers/ directors and some students will never be able to get along. This is often refered to as a "personnality conflict" and doesn't necessarily make either party "bad" or "wrong." Thirty years ago I changed majors from Music Ed/ clarinet to Elementary Ed. because the only clarinet prof at my (then) small state college and I had such a conflict. (There were a great many sax majors at that school!) I didn't have the resources to change schools, and made the best of a terrible situation.
At the risk of offending some on this board, I will suggest that some musicians seem to have strong and unusual personalities, (and most of these seem to become directors!) As an adult amatuer clarinetist and singer, I can occasionally pick and choose directors by selecting which groups I will perform with, but even now, this doesn't always work. I treasure my experiences with the rare directors who can achieve great results while supporting the human dignity of their performers. I have sung with one such person for 20 years now!)
Nicole, as a more experienced person (read older!) who well remembers his youth, my advice (even if unsolicited) is to learn from all of your experiences, make the choices that seem best to you, and try to see situations from the other person's point of view as well.
My best wishes for you as you develop as a musician and as a person.
Jim
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kim
Date: 2000-05-14 18:45
Here we go again...he he. Some people who love their work don't know how to get the best results in their jobs. My professors are phenomenal, but they are weird! All of them are weird because they are professionals. There is a string professor that can't even teach. The students barely learn anything from his class, but he is still there. Great violinist. His senior violin performance major just performed with the orchestra as a solo performer. I was spellbound!
My clarinet professor is a professional too. She can't really teach either. But, whatever she IS doing, I can't tell you how much I've improved! A lot of kids dislike her ways of teaching. In the clarinet methods class, she has the graduate student teach instead of herself. There is something wrong with that picture, but the students probably got more from the grad student than from her.
If you try to start a conversation with any professor in my college, they go off on tangents. But, put them in front of an ensemble, they do the same thing. However, the results are great.
Nicole, you shouldn't judge a book by its cover. Give your director a chance to have an impact on you. If you don't, then you are plain immature. You also can't accept the world for the way it is.
I decided to work retail two years ago. Hated my boss. She was a bitch! I almost got fired. But now, I love her. She is a really nice person. Other people think otherwise, but since I allow myself to adapt to situations, I can accept people for who they are, I can like even my boss.
Stick with band and you will have the best time ever! I did and I am happy I did. The relationships, the music, and the fun I had cannot be beat. I don't believe that you can make one small problem in a year hurt you.
Live life to its fullest! You are only young once. Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Graham Elliott
Date: 2000-05-15 16:46
"The Lady doth protest too much." Shakespeare
Ken wrote:
-------------------------------
"Why is it that youth is wasted on the youth?"
--Carl Sandberg
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kristen
Date: 2000-05-18 02:15
PLEASE don't give up~!!!!! My brother was in the same situation, he was about to give up. My mom told him to say w/it for 1 more month,adn school would be over. Then all of the suddern we got a new rand teacher, Mr Parrill, he is the best teacher in the entire school!!!! EVERYONE loves him, he''s so cool!!! Think about it, if everyone played in band, everyone in the whole world, the classical era would come back,we would have stars who actually wrote their iwn music! wouldn't that be cool! just do what your heart tells you.
KEEP SMILIN'
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
