 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-05-01 04:59
I've decided to get the Hite version of Baermann III as the version (Fisher) I have is not organized well. I spend about 15 minutes a day doing some book I and II short finger excercises and noticed that Hickeys also sells a book they call " Velocity Excercises". Is this the same as my current (Baermann I&II) finger studies or something I should consider adding ? BTW, just spent about 4 weeks working on Rose #7 and played for friends. I'm amazed how pretty a simple etude can be. Are there favorite, pretty Rose etudes ? Am I alone in flipping for this etude ? Thanks ALL. This board is tops !
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-01 06:45
I've always had a soft spot for the Rose etudes and caprices, and I firmly believe that a great deal of what you need to learn about the Romantic clarinet is in between the pages of the Rose etudes. In the "40" I really like 1, played at a VERY slow tempo, concentrating on placing the notes at the exact center of pitch and completely eliminating "finger junk" between the pitches. I also like 5, 7, 9, 12, and 21 for their "prettiness" and 20, 26, 29, 35, and 36 for the fun of them. Out of the "32" I'm partial to the slow etudes, mainly because I think you can learn a lot more by playing slow rather than fast. The main thing is to focus on every tiny aspect of your playing......if there's a rough spot in the transition between two notes work it unitl the problem is gone.
For good velocity studies I'd probably consider adding the Kroepsch. They are very short finger exercises that take you through a good tour of the keys. The Klose method has some of the Kroepsh in them but I prefer to get the individual books. You can start with just the first set as they take some time to get through. They are also a lot of fun.
As far as editions go, it's hard to say which are better. You have, generally, a choice between the Fischer (sparsely edited, some errors) and the Hite editions put out by Southern (somewhat over-edited but generally complete). I like the fact that the Hite edition of the Rose has all of the etudes in one book, as it is "one stop shopping", but sometimes the typeface they use is not so good....for an example take a look at the Southern edition of Hite's "melodious and progressive exercises", the book before the Rose.
Have fun!
-Randy
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-01 07:34
Bonade used the Rose 40 and Rose 32 as the foundation of his teaching.
He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that those books contained 90% of the preparation one would need to be an orchestral player.
The old 1913 Carl Fischer version of the Rose 32 is a mess. It has been reprinted so many times that the notes from the original plates (which probably weren't great to begin with) have become blurry, smudged and in some cases almost unreadable. At times, the lines of the staff completely disappear. The poorly thought out spacing and visual layout by today's standards is unacceptable.
The same mistakes and typos have been reprinted for almost 100 years. It is an annoying edition to play out of, to fix, and teach from. It is clearly a case of "you get what you paid for."
If you want to torture yourself and use the older Carl Fischer edition, most of the errors and inconsistancies in notation are painfully obvious and don't need listing. There are too many to count and not worth the effort involved.
Now for the good news:
Carl Fischer recently has published a "revised and corrected" edition of the Rose 32 by Melvin Warner. There is no comparison between it and the older 1913 version which in my opinion should now be permanently discontinued. (Why it is still being published (?) is a mystery) This is the one to have if you want a Carl Fischer publication of the Rose 32. It does differ slightly from the Hite edition, which is also beautifully printed but suffers at times being over-edited.
However, both are fine in their own way and are certainly worth having in your personal library.
Now if only all 3 editions could agree on the first note in measure 8 of Etude #27
...GBK
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-05-01 15:31
I've been spending hours every week with the Rose 32. I, also, prefer the slow exercises.
For a good time, move from the C-minor @25 to the C-minor second movement of the Crusell #2 clarinet concerto. Same key, much deeper music.
Today, I take my version of #27 into my teacher for inspection. What a bear, for the two crux measures (7 & 10), my brain seems to have no choice but to run down into my fingers and "foggadaboud" interpretation.
I find the John Walker accompaniments CD of help, although I have trouble bringing my playing up to his tempos for the even numbered exercises.
I'm going to be sad in 6-weeks to have finished my first tour of the "32" and be looking for another book of etudes.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2006-05-01 16:38
You may need a warm-up exercise book or may need to impovise it by yourself. What others use can be searched using 'warm up' as the key word.
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-05-01 17:05
Thanks to all. I do have the Hite Melodious studies and so far have chosen those that are written in the keys (2) that I'm working on that week. Not nearly as nice as the Rose, but helps get the keys/patterns into my fingers.
Hiroshi- I warm up with long tones, starting as softly as I can with tingue on reed and crescendo/decrescendo 8 counts up, then 8 down. I do about 10 of these spread between the lower and middle register. It seems to still take me and my clarinet! a while to play softly in the Alt register, but it's coming along. When I came back to the clarinet I couldn't play in the Alt at all. Today, I'm starting to really love the sound of those notes. Thanks everyone once again.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-05-01 17:09
I went through the Rose 32 the first time from the old Fischer edition, with my teacher marking the corrections from his copy, made by his teacher, and so on back.
The Durand edition is accurate, but it's on high-acid paper that falls apart after a few years, particularly if you leave it open on the stand.
The music was originally for violin. I bought the violin version, which has extra etudes, but it's full of double stops and other violinistic gestures.
Ken Shaw
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2006-05-01 17:26
I thought the Rose 40 books were violin exercises and that most or all of Rose 32 was based on the Ferling Oboe studies. In fact Rose never even bothered to transpose some of the things he took. In most cases he improved Ferling's work but in others, #17 for example, I think Ferling's candenza is much nicer.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
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Author: Cuisleannach
Date: 2006-05-01 17:56
<<I'm going to be sad in 6-weeks to have finished my first tour of the "32" and be looking for another book of etudes.>>
I did my first pass through the Rose in high school but I still come back to them....I use a slow one and a fast one every day for my warm-up (after scales and modes and before a pass through one key at random of the Baermann III), but I've made at least two additional "passes" as I've matured as a player.......who honestly knows what they're doing at 17?
-Randy
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Author: Wayne
Date: 2006-05-01 19:18
Well, my first pass at these at 49 and still learning. It was VERY slow going at first, but the rewards are GREAT. I've found that my overall playing has improved and my " doodling" on the horn has become far more musical. Thanks again to all, and especially GBK for insight and direction.
If anyone knows a good teacher in Portland, OR. I'd like to try lessons again. My problem is that my job often takes me on the road (the clarinet comes with). I'm hoping to find someone who will see me at least monthly to give advice and follow progress. Any help is appreciated....
Thanks
Wayne David
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2006-05-01 19:19
Hite edition has three artistic study books from French, German, and Italian schools.
Book-1 has Rose 40,32,and 9 caprices in one book at the price of 12.5$ when I bought it.Very economical. He wrote a reference duration time to each, which is very convenient for self study people like me.
Although it is because you can use a A horn instead of a B-flat horn, there are not many exercises with many #'s or flats. Only Rose 32's no.27,30,31,and 32 include 5 #'s or 5 flats. If there are more exercises for all major and minor keys, it would have been better.
BTW.You can change articulations of each exercise and make it twice useful. For example, by changing 'all-slurs' to 'all-staccatos' or by splitting every note to two or three.This doen't take any money.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-01 22:09
bill28099 wrote:
> I thought the Rose 40 books were violin exercises
> and that most or all of Rose 32 was based on the
> Ferling Oboe studies. In fact Rose never even bothered
> to transpose some of the things he took. In most
> cases he improved Ferling's work but in
> others, #17 for example, I think Ferling's
> candenza is much nicer.
Actually, there are only 3 of the original Ferling Studies that Rose kept in the same key signature when he adapted them for clarinet (Rose #17, #18 and #27)
All of the Rose 32 (with the exception of #22) were taken from the Ferling 48.
I've always felt that the exercises from the original Ferling 48 were much more difficult than the Rose adaption when he used 31 of them for clarinet.
The Ferling 48 Studies have more interesting articulation and many more ornamental figures (grace notes, turns, trills, etc...), making them a greater challenge to play correctly. The Rose 32 seem almost sterile by comparison.
I would also strongly suggest purchasing the Marcel Mule (Leduc) version of the Ferling 48. Mule added 12 more studies to the original 48, making a total of 60 exercises.
Mule completed the cycle of keys by adding 2 studies in each of the enharmonic keys of Cb minor, Ab minor, Gb minor, C# major, A# minor and D# minor.
Ab minor? A# minor? Cb minor?
Guaranteed to make you stop in your tracks...GBK
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-05-02 01:26
Without knowing I bought the old edition of the Carl Fischer (catologue #O439) 32 studies for clarinet by Rose. What sorts of misprints does this edition have? Does it have wrong notes or something?
This sucks...I should have read about this.
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Author: OmarHo
Date: 2006-05-02 02:00
I read GBK's posts and I'm convinced not to ask anymore about the misprints.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-02 03:41
Since the discussion is about Rose and his adaptation of material for the clarinet by other composers, we should also mention the 20 Grand Etudes by Pierre Rode.
These are often referred to as the Rode/Rose "Twenty Grand Etudes."
These exercises were originally written for violin and titled "24 Caprices ou études." The 24 exercises were in each major and minor key. Rose found 20 of these suitable for the clarinet and transposed the key signatures as needed.
This is another important study book which most teachers incorporate in their teaching plan after the Rose 40 and 32...GBK
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2006-05-02 15:47
I never really liked Rose 40 and use Polatschek and Kroepsch instead. I really enjoy Rose 32 and doing the slow ones on the bass clarinet is great fun. Here is an interesting write up on Rose 32 http://www.niu.edu/user/u40gmb1/Rose_32_Etudes.shtml
and Ferling
http://www.idrs.org/publications/dr/dr24.2.pdf/Franz%20Wilhelm%20Ferling
more on Rose and study books in general here
http://dspace.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/2152/1291/1/britzjm516425.pdf
Does anyone have a list of what Ferling study corresponds to what Rose 32 etude?
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2006-05-02 16:01)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2006-05-02 18:37
bill28099 wrote:
> Does anyone have a list of what Ferling study corresponds to
> what Rose 32 etude?
Here is a reference chart which I made for my students.
The Rose 32 exercise # is given first, the Ferling exercise # is in parenthesis:
1 (5) 17 (17)
2 (6) 18 (18)
3 (7) 19 (35)
4 (8) 20 (32)
5 (1) 21 (33)
6 (2) 22 (--)
7 (3) 23 (41)
8 (4) 24 (30)
9 (21) 25 (11)
10 (22) 26 (12)
11 (27) 27 (29)
12 (16) 28 (42)
13 (9) 29 (13)
14 (10) 30 (14)
15 (31) 31 (25)
16 (20) 32 (26)
BTW - Hite, in his edition, changes the order of Rose exercises
14, 15, 16 and 17 to 17, 14, 15 and 16 ...GBK
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