 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SJ
Date: 2006-04-30 01:16
Has anyone purchased one of those complete clarinet overhauls on Ebay for $80 plus shipping? Feeback seems good from rececnt buyers.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-04-30 02:20
I personally haven't, but I've had several customers buy those clarinets that were overhauled .. soaked in almond oil, new pads, etc. or had an overhaul.
I'd had to replace tenon corks (sloppily installed), clean the wood (got nasty smelling, icky and such), and general regulation which includes installing corks where there should be mostly for noise reduction and other misc things.
Overall, you get what you pay for. $80 isn't too bad but it seems to have been done in a rush and attention to detail simply wasn't there in the examples i've seen.
I charge more than that by nearly 3x, and attention to detail is easily three times that. I guess, in order to make the $80 somewhat profitable time is of an essence and not overall quality.
Overall though, I do have to say that most played fairly well. I say fairly well, as I've been able to get better tone and timbre from them after some work.
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-30 11:08
$80 for an OVERHAUL? That'll barely cover the parts, not to mention the time involved.
And $80 is less than the cost of a general service as well, so I'd take those claims with a large dose of salt.
Someone must have a lot of spare time and money on their hands if they can do that.
Or slave labour.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2006-04-30 11:24
I did this with a clarinet I acquired that I wasn't willing to spend 300 dollars on overhauling. The pad seatings were not very good, and it was obviously done in a hurry. Excessive amounts of glue were used, and the tenon corks were applied in a sloppy manner. Key action problems were not corrected. It worked, but not much better than when I sent it. They did a nice job polishing the keys though. It needed a good deal more work in order to work well. Fortunately I had a friend that owed me a favor that cleaned it up for me at no cost. If you need something quick done to make a 50 dollar bundy clarinet work for a marching gig, it would be sufficient. I wouldn't send them an R13 or something and expect to use it for an important concert. I'd recommend sending your instrument to one of the sponsors on this bulletin board. Their prices are reasonable, not dirt cheap though, but I read wonderful reviews of their work. Moral of the story, you get what you pay for...
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-04-30 15:55
A fellow clarinetist in my community band won one of those for her Evette and she says he did a great job. The eBay seller was a guy in Pampa, TX. I haven't personally tried him.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2006-04-30 16:05
I DID have my Full Boehm Buffet treated by an eBay servicer. It was cleaned up well (nickel plated keys). The bridge linkage was in total failure when the horn was returned. The vendor re-did that problem for the cost of one-way shipping (not included in the $80). But, the articulated G# pad is closed through the bridge mechanism on this horn (when the right hand rings are pressed), and that important part of the adjustment was ignored.
Not much improvement in playability --the first service in 28-years.
Then, I sent it to one of our sponsors --a big name, $500. Excellent workmanship, cork padded upper joint, ...
Then, finally (?) I sent it to David Speiglthal to be tuned; and it is now very, very good.
I'm not certain what I'll do for my next clarinet, but after I choose a perfect instrument, I'll get Dave to refine it.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-04-30 16:39
I charge £150 (GB£) for a full service and £350 for a full overhaul on clarinets regardless of quality (though I only tend to work on pro quality instruments where the cost is justified - if anyone wants a plastic Yamaha etc. cork padded then I'll do that) - and that's with cork pads for all the smaller cups, and white or brown leather (CLG) pads for the bottom four - sometimes with a cork pad in the Ab/Eb cup.
Otherwise I would like do the whole lot in cork pads if I could get 16mm+ good quality cork pads for the bottom cups.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2006-04-30 18:57
Hi,
The guy in Pampa, TX is someone that I have used in the past (now I have a local person that has been outstanding). Spence Hearn as I recall. I always got very good service.
HRL
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2006-04-30 19:34
Awhile back I used Spence Hearn in Texas to clean and repad an older noblet, and he did a good job.
Since then I have had a LL repaded etc at more than double the cost locally, and quite a bit of that was with high quality parts. It was well worth the extra cost.
Personally I would rather deal with a local tech (if you can find a good one), in case there was a problem I could take the horn back. Shipping can eat up any savings quite quickly.
.......Jim
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Author: susieray
Date: 2006-04-30 20:16
I also know Spence, and he is a great guy to work with. He does a good job on Selmer Signets and Noblets especially. But he does have to work very fast in order to do them at such a low price, so he does not have time to really do any kind of fine-tuning of the instrument. But in my opinion the key polishing alone is worth the $80, and I don't know how he does it. Again, he is a great guy and very willing to work with the customer if there are any problems. I am sure that is why he has such good feedback, he is just too nice to get negatives from anyone. I would recommend him to anyone who needs a student horn (Bundy, Vito, Yamaha 20, Noblet, etc) repadded. It just doesn't make sense to spend $300 on an overhaul for a older used student horn. I think he is providing a much needed service to parents who need their kids' instruments repadded at a reasonable cost.
But you do get what you pay for, and you cannot expect a $300-$500 job for $80. If you have a nice professional instrument needing a complete rebuild I would without hesitation recommend both Vytas Krass and John Butler.
Sue
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2006-05-01 01:47
I was thinking more about the $80 and here is how i would go about doing it:
[1] buy the cheapest pads available. such as single skin. There isn't too much per pad $ from a single to a Premium double skin but there is generally a quality difference.
[2] attempt to use inexpensive material throughout. Such as a lower grade cork, which will work for a while but then compress more over time vs. very high quality AAAA cork. and maybe use a cheap alternative to french cement.
[2] limit the entire repad to an hour. period. That may not allow me to play test it very much but could make it nicely playayble though not fantastic.
Overall, not a high quality job and not the direction alot of techs would go towards. It may provide some short time clientele but as the clientele got more sophisticated they would opt for higher quality jobs.
as someone mentioned, not bad for a instrument for marching band but not for a concert.
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Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-01 12:30
An accomplished player can 'play' his way through an instrument that is in an inferior state of adjustment.
However a beginner cannot.
It is the infrastructure, such as reliable linkage materials, tight pivots, excellent pad alignment and geometry of keys, etc, and general attention to detail that is the time consuming part of servicing.
I would not like to compromise my standards down to $80 for a beginner player. I have done occasionally, and explained all that I have not done,and the possible repercussions.
Typically the first symptom of such compromises is difficulty with the left hand fingering for mid-staff B, the very note that is at the best of times, the most difficult for a beginner.
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Author: corks&pads
Date: 2006-05-01 13:24
I think that I've seen the same person(s) who offer these inexpensive rebuilds, and I've wondered how they manage to do them so inexpensively. One possibility that I came up with is that they may be living on some sort of pension, enjoy that sort of work, and are willing to do it for relatively low pay.
I commend them. There are lots of parents of kids who have "plastic" Vitos and Evettes who need repair, but can't afford to invest much in keeping an inexpensive instrument playing. I've even considered sending some of my own stuff to a person like that, then make adjustments to the pads, etc, when it comes back.
Doing some quick calculations, the materials to service a student instrument with reasonably good pads and cork could run as low as $30 (or even less), leaving $50 for labor. If they can do a fast service job in about 3 hours, and do a couple of horns a day, that could amount to enough money to make a big difference for someone on a fixed income. (I'll leave it to your own imagination as to how such a business might produce a bit more spendable money than the same income would generate if working for somebody else.) The work schedule would be flexible, and you should be able to get along with the boss.
I know of a few people who fully restore instruments and sell them online. I've seen the work of two of them, and it's been quite good. I know another, by local reputation, who occasionally sells some of their instruments online. A buyer would be *very* fortunate to get one of their restored instruments.
No doubt there are some who don't do as good a job as others, but that's part of the risk--and fun--of buying anything at auction. Sometimes you get stuck with a dog, and the next time you might get a pleasant surprise (like the older archived posting of someone who not only got a very nice instrument for a relatively low price, when she investigated a tear in the fabric of the case, she found four little-used, high-quality, mouthpieces.)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-05-01 16:16
I can personally recommend John Butler because I have used him on one of my clarinets. He did a great job. However, as mentioned above, remember that shipping back and forth does add to the overall cost, so if there's anyone good in your area or within driving distance that would be a better solution. Then if there's a leaky pad or some adjustment that's not exactly as it should be you can just drive over to see them rather than spending the money on mailing back and forth.
Also, remember that temperature changes affect the seating of pads. So, if it's hot summertime, please allow for your clarinet to "acclimate" when you get it back. Bring it inside in the shipping box and let it sit in the air (or no) conditioning for at least 30 min. to an hour before taking it out. Then allow it to come to room temperature (maybe another 15 or 20 min) before playing it. This is especially important with new pads and/or a new instrument.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2006-05-01 23:04
the guy in pampa texas does execellent work. he is retired and has nothing to do and enjoys his work. he has done 1/2 a dozen for me. spence hearn is his name.
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2006-05-02 03:31
If you can come up with $800 and can find your way to Columbus Ohio, you can he Tim Clark overhaul your clarinet. One of the best in the Country. No doubt
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Author: MSK
Date: 2006-05-03 01:38
I purchased a used clarinet from one of those ebay overhaulers (I think out of New York). The clarinet that was supposedly newly overhauled required a complete overhaul locally. I have had ongoing problems because too much pad glue was used and it has been difficult to get rid of the excess, causing sticky pads in humid weather.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2006-05-03 13:45
Well, MSK, that's why it's a good idea to run it past the bboard before shipping your instrument off to someone. Apparently Spence Hearn has a good reputation for his work and others (the one you mentioned) don't.
As in life, sometimes a bargain isn't a bargain.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2006-05-03 15:57
I'm with Chris. if a proper overhaul takes 6 hours plus conducted over a period of a week, it's not realistic to expect the finest materials to be used and fine adjustments with due regard to intonation, feel and quietness.
You can get a squishy pad set for $10 or a really top notch firm set for closer to $20-30 (I use Rigotti premium pads direct from their factory). Same issue for cork quality. Would sir prefer rough and ready cork with lots of swirly dark stuff in it, or baby bottom-smooth cork with a beautiful uniform colour?
Not surprising that 6 + hours work and top notch materials will cost $400-$500. Hardly worthwhile for a student clarinet though, since you can practically get a decent pro model for the same price.
Nick
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2006-05-03 22:07
I agree with Nick, except for "...conducted over a period of a week..."
If pads is installed accurately, and all other relevant factors are attended to, then the set-up does not change during the next few days for a clarinet.
The case may be a little different for flutes, even even saxophones, with their much more elaborate linkage mechanisms and linkage silencer combinations.
These sorts of times are often quoted more to allow the technician time leeway to fit the job around other jobs, or to allow time for say a glue to set properly if say a post is loose. In my experience it takes hours to do a good job on clarinets, not days of sitting around waiting for things to 'settle'.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-05-03 22:57
I expect cork pads once they're in and seated to retain their seal, and they're all ready from the word go - they shouldn't move at all once they've been seated. Only getting a bent key or leaving the instrument in it's case in a car parked in the blazing sun for a few hours will cause cork pads to fail.
But I do like to check things again after all the work is done after about a day or so just to be sure everything's in regulation when the customer collects it, and check the leather pads just to be sure they haven't swollen since seated (though I do check them with light pressure and don't like to see too deep an impression on the surface).
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Author: nickma
Date: 2006-05-04 07:32
I totally agree with Chris and Gordon regarding padding, but many clarinets that I buy second hand are horribly dried out, so I do like to treat them first with oil over a 3-4 day period to bring the bore back to its glassy, glossy self ( a mixture of almond and Anton Weignberg's flower oil concoction depending on how dry the wood is) . Then I like to leave the new tenon corks for a good few hours after attaching before I put the joints together for the first time. I also like to play test across a couple of days with different pieces to make the set up as fluid as is possible for me. I may make only very tiny adjustments, but sometimes I feel that they do make all the difference.
By the way, I highly recommend Steve Goodson's saxophone repair group (on Yahoo music groups) for people who care and worry about how best to go about overhauling them.
Nick
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